~”DIARY OF DAYS“~

Diary Of Days

“From Public Records Release PDF# 17

ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE

08-069208 COMPUTER FORENSICS REPORT
CASE AGENT:
Yuri Melich
Detective
Orange County Sheriff’s Office
Criminal Investigations Division
Child Abuse/Missing Persons Unit
2500 West Colonial Drive
Orlando, Florida 32804

COMPUTER FORENSICS EXAMINER:
Sandra G. Cawn
Detective
Orange County Sheriff’s Office
Criminal Investigations Division
Computer Crimes Squad
2500 West Colonial Drive
Orlando, Florida 32804
(407) 254-7000 ext. 7-0593
Seizure and Processing Notes

An MSWord document entitled “diary of days.doc” was bookmarked. The Metadata Analysis of the document “Diary of Days” reports the author as CMANTHON of the GENTIVA Corporation on July 2, 2008 at 10:42:08 am. The document was bookmarked and copied to the Evidence\Documents folder. The results of the Metadata Analysis were saved to the same folder. Also bookmarked were several web page entries for Bill Pay for the account “Casey Anthony, account number 04985420- 001-04” for payment of a cell phone bill.

-METADATA EXAMPLE:

Name: diary of days.doc
Description: File, Archive
File Created: 07/02/08 10:51:12AM
Last Accessed: 07/15/08 04:40:PM

Last Written: 07/02/08 10:51:12AM
Full Path: 08-069208\WXE906472668\C\Documents and Settings\bobby\Desktop\diary of days.doc”

*The above is an excerpt from OCSO documents.

**Notice that the metadata shows this document to have been originally authored by CMANTHON of the GENTIVA Corporation AKA, CINDY ANTHONY.

Notice it was first written/created by Cindy Anthony on July 2nd 2008 at 10:42 am.  This is the day before Cindy posted her “My Caylee Is Missing” blog on her MySpace account.

NOTICE that, although they show the actual Metadata Analysis for every other suspicious photo or documents they found, as far as “Casey” and “bobby” go, they DO NOT go out of their way to show the same for this “Diary Of Days” document authored by “CMANTHON Of Gentiva Corporation”.

Why did they leave this important info. out of that report?

About 10 minutes later this document finds itself in the “bobby” account documents at 10:51 am.

So, tell me, how did a document authored by Cindy Anthony of Gentiva Corporations end up in this “bobby” account?

I thought about the fact that the laptop Casey used, on her 31 day excursion, actually belonged to Cindy.  This led me to wonder if this laptop had been issued to Cindy via Gentiva, or if it was a work-based laptop.  BUT, I found that might not be possible when I searched and found this little tid-bit:

“When asked if Cindy could work from home on her laptop, Polisano stated that Gentiva’s system blocked remote access of work records.”

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the above info. would make having a work laptop kind of useless if one is “blocked” from accessing work records from outside of the work-place.  Agreed?  In other words, that would help us figure that this infamous “Diary Of Days” document was created AT the Gentiva Corporation office. Yes?  And if it was created at Cindy’s work-place under Cindy’s work log-in info., then it was also, most likely, written by Cindy— or someone playing around at her work station.

So, what?  Was Casey at Cindy’s office on July 2nd, writing poetry on Mom’s computer?  Possibly, but I doubt it.  The reason for my doubt is the fact that it was found under “bobby” 10 minutes later…

I recall, somewhere among the doc dumps, that Cindy spoke of her love for writing and poetry.  I believe Cindy may have written this poem and emailed it to Casey who, in turn, saved it into her “bobby/ docs”.  (What’s with the “bobby”, anyway??)

It is July 3rd, the next day, when Cindy posts her “My Caylee” blog in her MySpace page.

Casey then “responds”, on July 7th, with Cindy’s own poem, “Diary Of Days”, and the big question we should be asking is, “WHY?”

What was Casey trying to say to her mom?

It is also important to note that the fact that it was CINDY, and NOT CASEY, who authored this poem, changes the way it should be perceived.  Don’t you think?

Any ideas?

“Metadata:
 Metadata describes other data. It provides information about a certain item’s content. For example, an image may include metadata that describes how large the picture is, the color depth, the image resolution, when the image was created, and other data. A text document’s metadata may contain information about how long the document is, who the author is, when the document was written, and a short summary of the document.”

-CatOutLoud®-

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Comments
  1. Hello, Neat post. There is a problem with your site in web explorer, could test this?
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  2. Another Look At “Diary of Days” | catoutloud

  3. GasCanGeorge says:

    Hi Cat,
    I should’ve read above, before I posted, didnt see your post on Cindy’s vaca etc….Anyho. I hope a good investigative reporter reopens this case.I think Cindy is more involved then I originally thought…. Ciao

  4. GasCanGeorge says:

    Hi Cat ,
    Long time no see! I certainly hope this case doesnt die down and ultimately a good
    investigative reporter reopens and hopefully brings a conviction. If not a conviction hopefully
    charges against you know whosss in whoville~!

  5. sonja says:

    Cat,

    I chose to comment to our previous conversation at the bottom of this post because our discussions were becoming too “skinny” to read:))) After thinking about the most recent comment I made to your last post, I wish I would have added the Ablow comment to this post because it was out of context and irrelevant to the comments on “Funny Bones”. I apologize. But Cat, I need to once again applaud your analyisis in reference to your post about choking and the implications of such an act.

    In the previous Ablow comment, i failed to point out something you would find even more interesting that the article itself!!!! There was a link I somehow missed when reading the article the first time to an audio file of a chapter read by Ablow himself; its short and to the point and draws so many parallels to your choking theory and what went on behind closed doors.

    Again, here is the link to the article again and within the article is also a link to the audio file I referenced above: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45387348/ns/today-books/t/bestselling-author-goes-inside-mind-casey-anthony/#.TsvtUfLSygA

    These are my thoughts after listening: although he doesn’t outright mention the choking incident in this chapter my guess is that he gets into it in the rest of the book. He mentions the fight that night though. And based on his comments I see the insightful parallels you drew to physical choking and how the physical act implies that there were years of emotional suffocation by her parents to KC. How you correct you are about how that act implies so much more about the family workings.

    His book draws on five different theories but the theory by Ablow, the media chooses to focus, is that Ablow’s theory that Caylee died the night of that fight, by suffocation.Nevertheless, the critical tone in which Ablow discusses this alleged suffocation, places the blame exactly where it should fall, imho, which is not on KC even if she were the one who committed the act.

    Additionally, since I haven’t read the book, I don’t know what his other four theories are but I do know he has harshly spoken out in the past about GA and CA odd behavior and does believe KC could very well be victim of abuse. Ablow, is someone in the media I did agree with when it came to analyzing this family’s behavior. On a personal note, I’m tossing about a career change and am applying to a grad program to become a licensed mental health counselor with a specialization in forensic counseling which is why I’m very drawn to looking at the family, their behavior/interactions so I hope I’m not inundating you with information you may have put to rest:))

    IF you do listen to the file, I would really like to hear your thoughts about his theory emotional suffocation etc.

    • CatOutLoud® says:

      NP, the topics all tie in together and there’s really no way to avoid it ;), no worries. I do agree the the nesting of comments is a little annoying in how it gets skinnier.. Weird. Well I will consider changing the the format. Unfortunately the other style makes it hard to reply directly to comments. Should I make the switch??

      I’m taking a turkey prep break now, but I will check the links you posted ASAP and let you know what I think. Thanks!

      I applaud your choice of career change! I had wanted to be a psychiatrist from a very young age, but let it go. I have always loved to “investigate” and try and solve mysteries, and find out whatever it is I do not know, in general. Criminal profiling is my favorite. The whole stalking experience taught me so much about so much in that whole arena and it awoke my inner “detective”. I was considering PI school after that! LOL.. Haven’t pursued, but may someday. Go, SONJA!! 😀

      Choking is a very personal act. It takes a lot to bring your hands to someone’s throat, for the normal person— even when fighting for your life… So I would say that C&G choking Casey speaks VOLUMES about the pair. Choking is also very psychologically traumatizing to the victim, as I’m sure you can imagine. It gives me the chills to picture Casey in that situation, regularly. It attaches a whole different aura to the picture of Casey’s life inside that house…

      Nothing has been or can be put to rest in this case for now. Not until it is all finally worked through and through and pieced together, cohesively. You have brought SO much to the table. Please keep it up, we wouldn’t have gotten this far w/out you! 🙂

      • sonja says:

        Oh no worries! What does NP mean? I I think you’ll understand just how much choking went on in this family when you listen to him. It’s very sad in how he explains how teh family suffocated her soul/core person. How humiliating he said about GA Anthony being at the foot of the bed when KC had the baby. I agree. In a different fam, that same act could be construed as loving though. He has good examples!!! No, I like the way the comments display on your blog. In this case where we had been commenting back and forth, my comment was so skinny that i thought your reply might be one long line though:0)

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          LOL! One long line LMAO! I found a compromise and the nesting will only go up to 4 comments. That should help.

          I am very intrigued by what is in that book. I might have to get me and early x-mas gift! 🙂 I really can’t wait to read it, thanks to you.

          It is very sad to picture what Casey may have gone through since she was very young. We see her as a young adult, but if people would picture her as a little girl going through some very traumatic situations, IE: molestation by dad and bro, emotional and psychological abuse from mom and the rest of the family, physical abuse, including, strangulation… What the hell do people expect her to be like?? I’d say she fared pretty well, considering! She used the happy face and upbeat attitude as her facade. It was for her own mental sanity. A lot of severe abuse victims do not choose to wear their pain on their sleeves. They compartmentalize it. All they want is to be, feel, and appear normal, like “everyone else”…

          NP= No problem.

  6. justthinking says:

    I had make real sure so a day ago i sent myself a mswdoc saved to a computer(last time it was on a traveldrive) and opened it on my own comp at home. Sure enough the author still shows up as the other comp. and i dont think CA would name her home computer or personal laptop after her work log in so i think she did send that to Casey and Casey dl. it july2nd. Then i think if that was cindys lap top and wanted casey home why didnt she threaten her with police anytime before july 15th of stealing it, same with car. Even if the car was left at the tow yard it would have shown up as stolen and police would have been involved sooner i’d think. Also AH, i think she would have pressed charges on casey without cindy finding her. what was casey thinking? thought i read somewhere she even signed her own name on some if not all the stolen checks, how did she get away with that one(if this is correct).
    I listened to the 1st police interview too while reading the info at acandyrose.com(maybe its been done) on june 16th since its been said she mixes truth with lies and i notice that when shes talking about waiting on the steps of the apt. then leaving she says she left the “house” maybe im just reading too much into it but she never really was at the apts least that day and it kind of goes with a theory i had that all those calls at 4 to her mom were her looking for caylee. she says there that she left to JB park and imo the pings are in that range of the park, cindys job as well though. Then she says before going to a “neutral place” at 7pm she calls again, on the site i see i call made to her mom/house at 7:06pm for the last time that day. I know it could be a coincidence with the lies, so IDK. even if my 1st though was cindy was involved in someway after hearing the 911 tape alone i’d be surprised if it came out she was.
    also on a candyrose.com when it says like 30min no phone activity or 2hrs no phone activity, does it mean it was off or just not in use?

    • CatOutLoud® says:

      I’m glad you double checked on the doc situation. It seems we’re safe to say Cindy created DOD. Until someone comes w/some verifiable alternate explanation, that’s the theory I’m sticking with! 🙂

      So I get you on the “house” vs “apt” wording but I call everyone’s place “house” no matter what type of house it is. Others are more specific, though, so that one would be hard to figure out. She could have been more inclined to say she left the “building” or “complex”, but we can’t know. Maybe reading over all of her transcripts again could help us there.

      The flurry of calls… Notice George called Casey 3 mins after 3 that day, right when he would have started his work shift… Why? That has always bugged me. The fact that there seems to have been very minimal phone contact between GA & KC during that period, could mean nothing or it could mean GA knew something and they decided phone calls would not be the best means of communication under the circumstances. We know Casey, supposedly, told Cindy all of those lies about where she was and who she was with, but it seems those lies were only told to Cindy, according to Cindy.. No one else thought she was anywhere but where she was. So why that was exactly, is a good question. Was the secret between them? IDK, but what I do find interesting still, is that Cindy was the first person Casey called the day her car ran out of gas. There was a 2 min convo or Vmail left depending, but Casey called Mom before anyone else… What do you gather from that?

      • CatOutLoud® says:

        JT, the “no phone activity” means that there was no use of the phone at those times. No incoming/outgoing calls or texts. I forgot to answer that question when I replied. Sorry.

        On “Funny Bones”, I just answered some comments of yours, I somehow missed :).

        • JustThinking says:

          Okay TY. Maybe i was reaching a bit on the house v. apt. bc also she doesnt mention the grunds babysitting her until apr. of 06. She says it was a middle school friend(which could be also), given the situation her mind was probably all over the place. On the call i never thought about it,maybe she was asking for money? i really think they had more contact with Casey than they let on. I read indygal comment on the “truth is stranger than fiction” and when i 1st heard baez in the OS, i didnt believe all of it. I did feel that it was used bc Casey herself didnt really know what truly happened and if that would have came out she mos def would not be believed. Even the DP attorney anne fennell? on an interview after the trial said she believes more ppl were involved and that casey prob. doesn’t know what happened to Caylee, and that goes with Baez state of never knowing how caylee died. I understand they’re the defense of an acquitted person and are going to continue to defend, but since they still are helping her i really feel that they believe her. I know i may be wrong, but i dont think they would if they felt she was guilty or if she confessed to them she did something.

          JMT&Os’

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          JT, Hello!

          I agree w/you, I don’t think they were in a position to be able to tell the true version of events as Casey knew them, after all the lies had been exposed. They knew it would not be believed and it was too risky, at that point. I don’t think Casey was too keen on letting the cat out of the bag about Dad or Bro, but Baez convinced her it was necessary. This is why she reacted the way she did when he opened w/those statements. Lee was not mentioned or questioned in court regarding his role in the molestation because that’s where Casey drew the line. She had never intended for any of that to come out to the public… But it had to. They came up w/a cleaner version to present to the Jury, in order to save her life. Casey had a hard time admitting to the molestation, even to her psychs at first… This, IMO, shows her unwillingness to throw her family under the bus, by letting those dark secrets surface. Baez let her know what her dad was really up to behind the scenes and made her face the reality of what had to be done.

          As for the sitters, Lauren Gibbs was the primary care taker until Caylee was about 7 mos. She quit and then the Grunds watched her 2-3 days a week for about a month after that. It wasn’t working out and RG asked Casey if she’d found anyone else, this is when ZFG was born. April/May 2006. By creating this nanny, she was taking the pressure off of RG who no longer wanted the responsibility, but did not want to leave Casey hanging. JMO.

  7. HollysGmom says:

    Could this song be a reference to the “Everyone Lies, Everyone dies” part and is it describing RM?

    http://www.actionext.com/names_h/humble_gods_lyrics/fucked_up.html

    • CatOutLoud® says:

      I see what you’re saying w/this song. But it’s just the one line. That line has been in other songs. The only thing that song made me think about was RM. He seemed to be more into the rock vs hip-hop. I’m sure if we took each line from the DOD, and googled it, it would show many references. We often sample lines that we like and throw them into our lives. We may not even realize that they are not our own.

      I guess we need to more looking into this matter, either way, huh?

      • HollysGmom says:

        COL, Thanks. I do agree that Cindy created the diary of days. Very interesting article.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Thanks, again, HGM… That is def what is it looking like, huh?

          I’m at a point where I’m having a hard time deciding who was dirtier, LE or C&G?

          Whatever the case may be, they ALL muddied the waters so bad, that they HELPED Casey, regardless of what the intention was.. I say, that’s what they get for tampering with, enhancing, and falsifying evidence.

  8. HollysGmom says:

    This page gives some interesting insight into the movie Jumper & how it eerily is similar to Casey’s circumstances (Wanting to be special, more powerfull, listened to, valued, free of responsibility) and contains the phrase from the above “Diary of Days”

    “Indeed, the voiceover for the trailer corrupts the classic Spiderman mantra to: ‘with great power come great consequences’. ”
    http://www.damaris.org/content/content.php?type=5&id=649

    SO if this line from the “poem/MS post” could be a direct nod at the movie Jumper, which Tony & Casey rented that night….could the other lines also be refrences to other information and possibly clues?

    If Cindy did post this instead of Casey was Cindy posting clues to Casey? Did she recognize the line from the movie Jumper? Is that why they rented that movie? Is it all sheer coincidence?

    • CatOutLoud® says:

      Thank you for the the link. It does give some good insight, but it doesn’t show me why Casey may have done something to Caylee. Both she and Tony picked the movies and they were in the “new releases” at the time, so it doesn’t really seem that odd of a selection. IMO, “Without a Trace” had nothing to do w/what happened to Caylee. That movie was crazy and far out there. If Casey had tried to claim that Caylee was being tortured over the internet, then maybe I would believe it ;). The only way it may have influenced her is in the fact that involving other people would further endanger the victims. Plus, the movies were selected and watched AFTER Caylee was supposed to have already been “gone”. I do think people are reading a TAD bit too much into the movie thing.

      One Tree Hill 100th episode search? Well, if you were a fan of the show and you missed that episode, what would you do? You would try to find it on demand or look for re-runs. But if you want to see it right away, you might try to watch it online. Big whup! A lot of people were watching “One Tree Hill”. It just happened to be about an an olive-skinned nanny taking a child. Otherwise, the description does not match Casey description of “Zanny”, IMO.

      True, these little things all added up, do create a strange looking picture. Not denying that. But if we all sit and think about the movies we watch, the songs we like, the poems we write and what we search on the net, can you imagine what we’d be giving the world to work with, if someone close to us died suspiciously??

      • HollysGmom says:

        Sorry COL. I sometimes copy other posts then forget to note that I have done so & added my thoughts to the bottom. The part before the link was copied & my thoughts are after the link. What I was thinking was that there were months of promos for the movie Jumper before it came out and that maybe Cindy had seen the promo and knew Casey had rented it? Was that movie reference a code from Cindy to Casey? Did it pinpoint the day that Caylee died? As in “the day you watched Jumper”? Seems like a stretch now, LOL. Anyway, thanks for being so patient 🙂

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          LOL, no worries, I got you now. I am not sure what that poem was supposed to get across, but I do know Cindy said somewhere in the docs that she loved to write– particularly, poetry… 😉 Hmmm. I’m going to have to find that again. Do you recall it? It could have even been in one of her letters to Casey. The movies may have played a role in there somewhere, or they may have simply been two movies picked out, by Casey and Tony, from the “new release” shelf. They may not play any major role. It’s really hard to figure that one out.

          You may think THIS is a stretch, but I’m still not so sure that BB surveillance was actually from June 16th.. The time and date stamp seems to be just ever so perfect and clear as the video made major HLN news. My first searches of the video, turned up a few w/no time and Date stamps and then I found I still and the stamp was so hard to read.. But it looked like the 1 in 16 was actually a 0… Tony said they had been at the pool on the second of June… In the video the girl looks to have been wearing a bikini under that huge T w/the sleeves cut off… Just sayin’.

  9. HollysGmom says:

    imnotheonlyone10-01-2008, 01:59 AM
    Am I reading this paragraph of the Computer Forensics report correctly?

    An MSWord document entitled “Diary of Days.doc” was bookmarked. The Metadata Analysis of the document “Diary of Days” reports the author as CMANTHON of the GENTIVA Corporation on July 2, 2008 at 10:42:08 a.m.

    Am I reading this to say that the “Diary of Days” blogs was authored by CINDY and not Casey???

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-70030.html

    LMAO!!!

    • CatOutLoud® says:

      LOL. I guess that didn’t flow too well w/the already rigid and formed opinions of many. I understand the need for people to find her meaning in the poem but it seems they were digging a little TOO deep. “She took a bunch of movie ans song quotes and threw them together? So what if she did? ;). But somehow someway, there is actual proof that the poem was “authored” by CMANTHON OF GENTIVA CORPORATION. IF she had created it on July 2nd and not some random other time, it goes in sequence w/the July 3rd creation of her MS account and the “My Caylee” blog post. As we know that page was created by Cindy for the very purpose of getting through to Casey. So it could also make sense that prior to that, she had sent her an email of a poem. What do you think, HollysGmom?

      • HollysGmom says:

        I totally agree COL! I also think that it PROVES that Cindy & Casey were having much more extensive conversations then Cindy would have us to believe. IMO Casey was telling her all about what she was doing, that she watched this cool movie with TonyL named Jumper and what it was about, etc etc etc. As far as the calls are concerned we ONLY have CIndy’s word for what was discussed. That’s it! As far as we really know Casey was the one asking about Caylee daily and CINDY was the one LYING & MAKING EXCUSES.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Yes ma’am! Cindy is the only one who told us of all of Casey’s “stories and excuses” on the phone. All we know of Casey, is that she lied to friends about who Caylee was with and where…

          If Casey knew something had happened and was covering for her folks, she would not be able to place Caylee w/her parents. This is when Zanny became “full-time nanny”… I don’t even know if she told her friends the nanny story as much as they claimed… That’s just IMO 😉

  10. HollysGmom says:

    Gosh, maybe this has already been covered but it is said that Mr Baez claimed that the “Diary Of Days” was lyrics from a somgwriter named Hayden Christensen. Some sleuthers insisted this was an outright lie! Hayden is the name of the actor who played in Jumper, the movie Casey & Tony rented at blockbuster. Well, it’s also the name of a band/lyricist.

    • CatOutLoud® says:

      I’m not sure why Baez claimed they were song lyrics. I took a look around and have found nothing to back that up on the net. I would think if it was song, by any known person, it would have been confirmed long ago. It may have been? It could have been a poem some unknown posted on the web. But, what I feel pretty certain about, based on the computer forensics evidence, is that Cindy is the one who brought that poem into this picture. She wrote it, or copied it from somewhere and sent it over to Casey in an effort to connect to her. I will keep looking, but I do think it should be quite easy to find these lyrics if they exist, simply due to the fact that they were blasted all over the world because of this case.

      • Anonymous says:

        I heard the song theory. even if it were, you were correct about the metadata and the the meaning behind using the song as a tool to communicate stands. How many times do people identify w/a poem or a song, dedicate a song to someone etc…

        • sonja says:

          The above comment was by me, sonja! I didnt hit the right buttons!

        • sonja says:

          I also write poetry! How fun that you like to write too! I was inspired by a high school English teacher to become a teacher. I loved studying literature in college. (Don’t judge my writing on the web as indicative of what I can do when I sit down and think, edit and work at it:))) About the poem itself, maybe I’m not understanding your questions or I am not communicating what I mean well enough. I’m trying to say is this: it doesn’t matter where the words came from, or who wrote the song unless someone other than CA or KC sent it or posted it. The song, even if written by someone else, was sent during a crazy, emotion-filled time so don’t you that it’s what the words mean to them, CA and KC, that matters? I think I’m confused. At any rate, I like my analysis below better, because I thought about some additional layers that could be the intended meaning to each recipient – CA, when sending it – and KC, by posting it back to her. I think they were communicating about the potential or known death of Caylee and reminding one another to stay quiet about personal family business.

          To reiterate, is reasonable to assume that even if this were the work of someone else, the words used still represent deep personal meaning to the writer. Therefore, it is irrelevant to me who wrote this piece originally. Another point substantiating this theory is what we know about the condition of the two women’s lives at the time it was written. Based on CA life experience, and current predicament, she identified with the words so the thoughts became her own figuratively speaking. Why I say this is because based on my experiences in evaluating and analyzing a piece of text I have learned that even famous authors refer to the work of another in their poetry as well as the non-professional writer. Since poetry is often referred to as the emotions of the English language, using someone else’s words does not require an explanation since it is part of the fun/job of the reader to decipher meaning as long as the whole piece is not plagiarized.
          In addition, a writer can even inadvertently refer to phrases they have heard into something they are writing. Haven’t you ever written a line in a poem and then thought, “have I heard that somewhere before?” We have heard the “with great power line” from the movie, Spiderman. However, did you know it was also said by two famous authors one being Voltaire. It has been suggested that the line goes all the way back to PLATO! Therefore, we learn that writers often recycle good sentences and incorporate them into their own work. What I like about psychology and literature is that we can go back over something written, think about it, and find even deeper meaning. I think I did a better job this time when looking into their psyche’s when reading this.

          “With great power comes great consequence”.

          CA- she is the one who takes care of everyone financially and sees herself as the matriarch, which is a power posii’m also of the opinion that she displays narcissistic behaviors so indeed she would view herself as powerful. The consequence is the current situation and how her narcissist supply isn’t being fed by Caylee anymore and definetly, not by Her world is shattered because she no longer has her precious granddaughter to show off to the world and dote on. She may feel guilt but not empathy or remorse that she played a huge role in causing the situation because she is never wrong. Because she is CA, a person of great power, comes consequence from those who continually use and abuse her from her point of view. I don’t think she can help this. It’s her personality disorder and until she wants to deal with it, she will continue viewing everything as a martyr.

          KC – IMO KC didn’t see herself as powerful. She feels quite the opposite. She saw everyone else as powerful, which is why she lied about her failures in life. She also identified with the poem, but for entirely different reasons.

          She was throwing the words back into her mom’s face. It was an “I know who you are and you know who you are” message. You are controlling, your “power” caused this demise. It is your fault because you failed to protect me. I am the way I am because of you.
          KC posting the poem back is a sad resignation of sorts. A way to say things are the way they are and I cannot do anything about it.

          The other lines everyone lies, everyone dies lines imo me are the most powerful lines in the piece given the circumstances at the time. It supports the main theme because CA feels like the ultimate victim, as we discussed before. Even if she was not sure lil Caylee had expired, she knew on some level in her gut. People in denial are sick in their minds and know what they deny on some level because the denial is their coping mechanism. CA must have felt horribly lied to over the years by daughter and father, the most important people in her life.

          Nevertheless, given KC’s background she could easily have felt lied to also by the most important people in her life. CA inconsistent behavior is lie from a young adult’s point of view. (Did you ever think how awful it was for CA to bash KC in front of and to her friends even doing so before the issue with Caylee started?) Then to turn around and say, “I love you” is a lie in a way. GA does not even require an explanation:) SO for KC flipping the script so to speak and putting the poem her mom sent back to her mom in the form of a blog is her powerful way of saying, “yes this is your fault and you are right but not because I’m the liar, but because you are. She could also be referring to any shady people she may have fell prey to aside from GA.

          What is given can be taken away.

          CA – referring to KC taking Caylee away or what CA provides for KC, cars, money can be taken away. The word CAN is why I say that about the material things she gives to Casey. It’s another way for her to control KC.

          KC – You give your love and take it away. You give me stuff and take it away. You took your love away and gave it to Caylee. I bet that betrayal hurt KC so much. She should have been supported in her role as mother and empowered by her mother. Instead, CA enabled KC so CA could have what she wanted: that victim role she plays so well. Moreover, KC, DID take her daughter away, by leaving and it may have been to punish her mother. However, I do not believe she even wanted her daughter dead just to punish her mother. I think we would have seen a completely different set of behaviors if that were so.

          “On the worst of days remember the words spoken” at the beginning of the poem

          CA – the author is reminding the reader about the overall theme of the poem which we discussed above.

          “On the worst of days remember the words spoken” Sadly, placing the line here has two meanings. It is telling the reader to remember the words above: trust no one, everyone lies and dies. It is a reminder to KC. Then the line also reminds the reader that in spite of the existential outlook, the depressing worldview, to hold your head up, be happy, smile while looking forward to another bleak day.

          So, we already think CA identified with this because she does hold her head high and because that is the role she plays.

          And, after thinking about this for a few days, I think that KC behaves this way herself. She holds her head high which is interpreted as being cold. She smiles while living in the moment because that is the only way she knows how to react. I believe she may agree with those thoughts.

          I think the deep meaning is the first thirteen lines and by using the line, “On the worst of days remember the words spoken” both were reminding the other to stay quiet about family business. The everyone dies line implies that KC may have known or suspected Caylee was dead. And also implies the same for CA. She was angry with her mom and posted CA words on a her blog for mom to read. KC in her own way was taking a tiny bit of power back and calling her mom out at the same time. Very sad. What do you think?

          The only thing I wonder is if CA posted it onto KC’s blog because she was sending emails in KC’s name. I doubt that though.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Wow, Sonja! You did some serious homework. Very interesting! I can totally see where you’re coming from w/that analysis. It would be so much easier to figure out who meant what if we only knew a little more. I agree w/the importance of the poem not being placed on who authored it, but what it means to the person using the words. I Just felt that, if Cindy was the original author, it would take away from the belief that Casey wrote it w/the mind frame of a cold woman who’d just snuffed out her child’s life. If it was written by Cindy first, the initial interpretation of what Casey meant by it is nullified.

          Sometimes I find myself back at wondering if maybe something happened to Caylee that night of the 15th, when Cindy and Casey had the fight that led Cindy to wrap her hands around her daughter’s throat. How many of us would ever actually do that to another person? Both George and Cindy have been witnessed, by different people, to have done this to Casey. I’m sorry, but unless Casey was trying to kill them, I can’t see how such actions are ever otherwise acceptable to normal people. We NEVER heard of Casey behaving in a violent manner. Chokers belong to a “special” group of people. If it happened on those two occasions, one has to wonder how many other times it happened before? George even went so far as to put on a spectacular show of “emotion” in front of the Padilla crew. He choked his daughter in front of witnesses. For him it was either total loss of control, or an act taken way overboard.

          If Cindy was posing as Casey in emails, when Casey was not supposed to be communicating w/anyone at the time, that’s one thing… But why would she do that, knowing Casey wasn’t supposed to be communicating, then tell those people not to tell that Casey had been talking or emailing them because she wasn’t supposed to be? I think that’s a surefire way to get people to run and tell… Quite sneaky, huh? So if she was capable of thinking along those lines, then it’s also possible she found a way to get onto Casey’s MySpace. Lee may have known how, and Lee is the one who helped Cindy set up her MySpace account on the third. But like you say, I don’t think she put her poem on Casey’s blog, either.

        • sonja says:

          So do you think perhaps that Caylee was hurt in the midst of a family blow-up? There is so much data about the effects of violence in the home to support that idea and others have thought that as well. Wouldn’t that mean that CA would have had to know from the beginning? What do you mean about choking? I think that choking someone is a risky way to communicate anger for sure! The act implies that the person doing the choking has some deep-rooted anger – I’ve never focused on that act on that day though before – how insightful of you! The way there family interacted to me, speaks to secrets, years of abuse and Casey being the family scapegoat. I do think the family had dysfunctional roles to play that kept the family surviving in denial. I thought some of GA outbursts were because of media scrutiny? Based on watching CA, I find it hard to believe that she outright staged the 911 call. I do think she was working to find Caylee but such duplicity in the way she engaged with Kc’s friends. Did you ever ponder the whole GA being in the delivery room? I thought it odd for sure because he was so estranged from his daughter over the years. Did you see that picture of KC when she was pregnant? i don’t think anyone was in denial about KC being pregnant but why the secrecy? I wonder if appearances in this new millennium are so important that they would feel so ashamed that she was pregnant? Also, if KC were abused sexually by GA, then what role does Ca play in the abuse? She certainly comes off as convincing about being in total denial about anything like that going on.
          ? Have you noticed whether CA displayed jealousy toward KC and her own relationship with her father? That dynamic would be important to note.

        • sonja says:

          I still question why CA didn’t call 911 earlier and why this family conducted such an odd investigation on their own. Oh, I like that this mystery of the diary of days is finally solved. I remember how on myspace a person would thematically tie in the movie and song to the theme of their blog. Do you know if KC really watched American Psycho that day? If she posted it to make a statement and didn’t watch it, she certainly made her point.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I can understand why Cindy wouldn’t call police earlier, if she truly didn’t know something was wrong. Who would think that their kid had killed their grandkid? So if Cindy just thought Casey was keeping Caylee away to spite her but figured she was safe w/her mom, I don’t see why she would have wanted to involve LE. The weird part is that when she first called 911, she reported a stolen car. Not a missing child! They told her she had to call Orange county so she went home and called again. this time she says her credit cards had been stolen and that she had called before about the car, and THEN that there is a possible missing child. Why the hell did she think getting Casey locked up for theft would help her find Caylee? Maybe it was done in hopes that Casey would be scared enough to quit the “games” she seemed to be playing?

          I actually haven’t even seen American Psycho even though I’m a Psychological thriller/horror film lover. I guess I’ll have to do that now. And maybe Casey got her idea to post mom’s poem, from something in the movie. I don’t know if Casey was actually watching the movie then or what. I never used that feature when I used MySpace. And ,as bad as it looks, I can’t say that I think the movies she was watching can truly help determine what she was capable of. If I was judged by my movie choices, people would be very confused, and I might be in some trouble!! LOL ;). I’m going to watch it though and see if anything screams at me.

        • sonja says:

          On the other hand, do you think that both women had discussed this poem before? Maybe it was a secret way of communicating reassurance that each person is doing their job in keeping quiet? If something did happen the 16th and this huge cover-up ensued it makes the whole diary of days seem as if it were CA’s way of telling KC to do her job and be quiet in trusting nobody outside the family inner circle. Then KC posts it on her blog to say I heard you and am playing the part without knowing she’s being scapegoated by her parents? Maybe there was an arrangement between the two about this correspondence? However, it doesn’t stand to reason that CA would follow with a post insinuating all sorts of things about KC… Hmmm.

          The poem certainly tells us that there is more than one secret being protected if nothing else.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Agreed. So many things to think about! If Casey had taken the stand, we’d have much more to work with. But I do feel she knew she’d be torn apart up there and it was the best decision for her not to have done so, in this case.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Oh man. Let me warn everyone again, I have a few theories, and not all of them go together. I come up w/these things when going over evidence, and statements and so forth and then try to fill in the blanks of what is missing. So I will probably present some conflicting ideas from time to time. 😉

          I do think it is possible that Caylee was hurt out of extreme anger or frustration during or after a fight. Maybe the night that Casey and Cindy fought on June 15th? Casey may have stormed out of the house for a bit, leaving Caylee behind. Maybe Caylee was screaming and crying for her mom and Cindy couldn’t take it anymore? But that would mean CINDY is the sick one (that wouldn’t surprise me) but then, we have to explain the 911 calls.
          Maybe Casey came home and Cindy told her something messed up had happened and begged her not to call 911 on her. So now, Casey knows this and has something to hold over her mother? Maybe Casey moved Caylee’s body and Cindy freaked out? Maybe she was worried Casey was planning to call the cops and had to beat her to it. But Casey had already learned from her parents that lying is the best bet when in doubt? LOL.. IDK about that one.

          Here’s a couple of things that concern me. In this family, money was a major issue. Cindy grew up as the princess of her family and always got her way. IMAGE was a major issue, to the point that they would blantanly deny knowing Casey was pregnant until she told them at 7mos. BS!! Cindy even allowed Casey’s grandparents to show up for Casey’s graduation, knowing Casey would not be walking w/her class that day!! WTH? WHO DOES that? I will always wonder if the pregnancy was tabooed and hidden because they had concerns about which relative was the father… This would help explain why the father issue wasn’t heavily pursued. I don’t put much stock in the fact that George was in the delivery room since that practice is becoming more and more common these days, especially w/the younger moms. I had my son at 17, but I kicked all the men out when it came time to deliver, but that’s just me. I can see why him being in there would raise questions, though. I do wonder if the parents were hoping to pass Caylee off as their own, or maybe claim they’d adopted adopted her and that is why there was secrecy about Casey being pregnant. Maybe that was the initial agreement and then Casey changed her mind after her birth. That could cause some territorial issues for sure.

          As far as the sexual abuse, many mothers of CSA victims, have been abused themselves as children… They may have sexual issues in the marriage and, when dad goes to fulfill his needs w/the child/children, she may actually be relieved, because the pressure is off of her to satisfy her husband. Sick, huh? She may not “know” or be in denial, as well. There may be suspicion, but the thought is far too disturbing to be pursued. I think that’s what happens in most cases. If the mother does have any idea, she can’t wrap her mind around it and denial takes over. We can see that there was a lot of resentment and animosity between Casey and her parents. The question is, WHY? There could be a thousand reason for it. But one of them could have been that she had been abused by her father sexually, and Lee followed that example… Mom is a spoiled and controlling woman who constantly belittles and degrades her daughter w/ her criticism and denial of what is being done to Casey. Casey told her mom about Lee and she refused to hear it. Casey insists and mom says “so that’s why you’re a WHORE?” Wow. I definitely think something real funky was going on inside those walls. It’s not uncommon for like-minded people to be attracted to eachother… Like Cindy and George? lol.. Maybe a “wicked attraction”?

        • sonja says:

          I get you propose all kinds of theories about this case and that’s what allows your blog to have many ideas about what really happened. ALL of them are valid and go along with the behavior we see. WHAT a MESSED up response when telling her mother about Lee. Could you imagine the response if she had mentioned her father too? I thought it odd he was in the delivery room only because Casey’s perception of him was so negative. I def see CA as a potential “mastermind” of all this with GA helping using his LE experience. If KC IS getting quality therapy, she may tell the truth some day as long as she is not in danger herself.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Yes, I feel like even though I believe she is probably innocent, I don’t want to get tunnel vision, myself, and miss things about ANYONE. The whole family is in question. Cindy’s response on Lee, matches her personality. The bottom line is that she’ll defend her whole family to the public or anyone trying to pick it apart because her family is a reflection of HERSELF. To me, it’s not so much about her love for her family… You know what I mean?

        • HollysGmom says:

          I thought of something…you know how once a person is comfortable with a computer and is primarily the only one who uses it they might enable automatic logins/passwords to certain accounts because it makes it so much easier to access those sites & why worry? You’re the only one useing that computer or website, you have no reason to suspect that anyone with access would impersonate you, even after leaving that residence & computer far behind those automatic logins would still be accessable by anyone with access to that computer. Do we know if the poster had to login PRIOR to posting? or was it a straight shot to the page?

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Good questions. I never allow my passwords to be remembered but I’m just p-noid like that! LOL. Very good questions. I’m not sure I think Cindy posted the blog on Casey’s MySpace, but I am pretty sure Cindy authored that DOD doc and sent it to Casey.

        • HollysGmom says:

          Ok…LOL…New question… I had previously been thinking that maybe Cindy both authored it and also downloaded it acting as Casey but then I remembered that the timestamps wouldn’t allow for that. (Cindy at Gentiva then on home desktop 9 minutes later) Not enough time in between UNLESS Cindy stopped by Gentiva to WRITE the Diary of Days then immediately went home (about 9 mins travel time) and immediately downloaded it onto the home desktop…

          then it occured to me…wasn’t Casey away from Hopespring during that WHOLE time frame? I mean she stopped in a few times but very breifly by all accounts. If she wasn’t at Hopespring between June 15 and July 3 …. when would she have downloaded it onto the home desktop???? Wouldn’t that prove somone else had to download it?

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I see what you’re thinking. The problem w/the figuring out who did what on the PC at home is that Casey was home from time to time and she was (it seems) often home alone on those occasions. What I do wonder is where George was on some of the days she was home prior to when he’d have left for work. The other thing is that the DOD saved by Casey into her ‘bobby doc files’ was supposedly done on her laptop. This is why I believe Cindy emailed it to Casey on the 2nd while Casey was sitting at RM/AH’s house w/her laptop, and Casey saved it. And, as Sonja has pointed out, Cindy could have saved the original doc to her home PC prior to sending it to Casey and, therefore, did not have to be at work to access it and send it to Casey. Then, the next day, Cindy has Lee help her set up a MS account and posts that “Caylee” blog… Then Casey comes back w/the poem Mom had sent her, a few days later…

          What do you think?

        • HollysGmom says:

          Excellent work there Sonja! In the past I had also thought along those same lines. IIRC, just before trial, I had done a line by line breakdown of the poem as comming from CA to KC and/or from KC to CA and what I thought they were conveying to each other
          ( power plays, etc). It was very similar to what you’ve posted. 🙂

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Hey, did you do a post on that one? I’d love to see it! And, yes, Sonja brings some good stuff to the table here! 😀

        • HollysGmom says:

          Yes COL. I had sent it out on my twitter. I am unable to access twitter from work now but I will send you some links and a copy of my thoughts/tweets on it! 8)

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Yay! Please do! And I agree. Sonja should seriously consider the hub idea. Maybe that’s where she’s gone off to? 😉

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          LOL! I was wondering who this “anonymous” was! 😉

          Sonja, the song theory is not a bad one except no one can find the song.

          I saw on some of the threads that HollysGmom posted links to, that someone came up w/ “everyone lies” & “everyone dies” came from the “House” series 1&2. It’s been assumed that KC likes that show. So did a lot of people. I write poetry and the most random things might inspire me. So even if Casey wrote that, what does it really mean? And if CINDY wrote it, as it appears she DID, then what did all of that mean for HER? Where did SHE get it? Was she also a “House” fan?

          IDK. But I think w/what we’ve gathered, Cindy is the author. We see NO OTHER DOCS or images or even searches that show that same info, either.

          There may be an explanation for all of it, but we don’t have one yet, so I stick to that belief. 🙂

          BTW, Sonja, I replied to another comment you left elsewhere (hint) 😉

        • sonja says:

          Cat Happy Saturday! I missed a comment?? Right now, I’m analyzing the poem again after having thought about it some more. I’m writing it on wordpad so hopefully, there isn’t as many mistakes.

          I will post it in about ten minutes. I need to click on the option that allows me to see which comment you are posting back to so I don’t miss anything. Would you tell which post you commented back to me on?

          Also, I have been thinking of starting a blog. But then I started thinking of making a hub which ( I THINK ) is a page full of websites about a certain topic. I think a hub with the blogs asking questions like yours, JB etc. would be an excellent hub page.
          that deal with KC and what really happened. I thought people like finding a reference page of the good blogs I read and the ones you and others recommend dealing with these topics. I bet there are more people out there than we think wanting to a place to read about this case. Do you think creating a hub is a good idea?

          Something else, Wendy Murphy wrote a chapter in a book dealing with sealed evidence and aspects of the case you have alluded to in your blog. I will send you the link to the chapter because some of the questions raised are being discussed on your most recent post.

          Finally, I thought id start a lil wordpress blog dealing with a question she raised. She said many of the answers to this case are in “the money”. She hinted to people wanting answers to “follow the money”. Do you know of a blog that has already dealt with this issue? Do you know what money she is talking about? she alluded to GA and KC paying blackmailers during the investigation. Do you think she means the money from Kidfinders or the money KC needed all the time. I don’t believe she was a druggie because she didn’t illicit those behaviors. She may have smoked pot “and whatever else she could find” in the end, but it was her behavior for the most part. Nevertheless, it could be argued that she was hypersexual from being abused therefore made money in ways suggested by some which could explain the theory that she was involved in something along with GA and they were paying blackmailers in the end… If this topic hasn’t been explored in depth, i thought if may add to the thoughful discussions going on the web. I would like honest feedback even gentle criticism;) IF you do think this is worthy topic, where would even begin?

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Hey Sonja! Top ‘o’ the Morning (afternoon) to ya!! 😉

          I am so glad you’ve come here. You’re input has been very helpful and insightful. I don’t think this thing can be figured out w/out multiple minds coming together.

          The comment I’m talking about is from another blog. They have me on their blogroll and the comments took place over there (SG?). Not trying to be cryptic but I don’t want to blast it if I don’t have to. LOL.

          Anyway, I look forward to hearing your analogy. Wendy Murphy was the one on Nancy Grace who got cut off right? I’m trying to read as many books about the case as I can get my hands on too. I’ve already found one that has quite a bit of incorrect info in it and I just don’t see the need for anymore false info. If these people truly believe in her guilt, then they should have no need for all the twisting and fabrications!

          Wendy may be onto something. I have my theories on that idea too, but it’s hard to get into that w/such little valid and known info. But def. if there were 1200 photos of Casey in “compromising positions”, that made George “so sick, even Lee can tell you, I was sick” (Why do they always need to add that in? “Even so and so can tell you such and such”, that always sounds like is BS, to me. I very much believe that a least 2 of the family members were involved in whatever brought on Caylee’s demise. This might blow some of the other theories apart, but that’s ok. However we have to get to the truest truth, I’m down for. If George and/or Lee had been molesting Casey for years, and mom has been “training” her for years to operate under the “family laws”, then I don’t put anything past them.

          I think your idea for a hub page is great. If you have something you want to say, blogging is a good way to get that out. I am very new to the whole thing. I’m more of a searcher on the web, I never really joined commentary before I happened across issues!cc.com on this case. So I might not be the best to get advice from on hubs and what not, but you seem to know what that’s all about, so if you want to start one, I’d def be checking you out! 🙂
          Keep me posted. I will try to help in anyway I know how.

          I know my posts may seem like old news to the people who’ve been doing this and following since day one, but my purpose is to revisit the events and squeeze out every last drop of info from them. There are things that we didn’t see at first. So I’m trying to put those thoughts out all in one chunk. The feedback is very important in bringing it all together as you can see :).

          I might change my comment format into the same one as JB’s because it is hard to know where new comments are w/the nesting. I just like the ease of commenting directly to each comment. What do you think?

          There are other signs of abuse that Casey showed that are not the most widely known. I plan to do a post on that subject as well.

        • sonja says:

          Happy Monday Cat! I have been so busy with my children that it has been difficult lately to comment efficiently. I have been on your blog more because my mind works better when looking at behavior and family dynamics. In this case, it seems like more answers can be concluded by studying these things until the evidence is released if ever. I think as long as JB appeals the lying charges the evidence will remain under seal. Did you know there are even warrants under seal too?

          I think your idea to read everything is good one; I want to read the books written by both sides because I think it gives a more complete picture of this situation. I also think going back over old evidence with a fresh perspective like you are doing is one way to help get to the bottom of this. Here is the link to the chapter released from the book she authored with other people.

          http://www.enterprisenews.com/breaking/x1406673699/Exclusive-Shocking-new-evidence-about-Casey-Anthony-Trial

          IS it rude to mention one blog on another blog? I assume that if we are all commenting on the same topic, as long as the commentor isn’t stirring up trouble, then mentioning another blog might help in bringing even more to the table. However, I sometimes miss those important unspoken rules and need to take better note
          of them. I didn’t even know who NG was until she started blasting “totmom” on GMA during the trial. NG bugged me just watching her for eight minute segments because I don’t like people telling me what to think and I was turned off by the whole “totmom” reference. Again though, I thought i was the only one turned off at that time!
          There is a blog called Kevin4Truth which is a well-written, sarcastic blog devoted specifically to pointing out the way NG doesn’t let any other viewpoint other than her own be heard. I don’t know if Wendy Murphy is the one she cut off on her show but I wouldn’t be surprised from what I’ve read about her coverage of this case. I read she cut off quite a few people during her coverage of this case. I also don’t like it when she speaks for God as if she has a personal track into who is damning to hell!
          Wendy Murphy isn’t a celebrity blogger like N.G. and I feel she has received a lot of flack for even bringing all this stuff up. She never once said though that KC was innocent. Nevertheless, in reading the comments on the articles, people seemed to only hear that and missed completely was she was trying to say. If someone says Casey may have been innocent people go nuts! I find that to be strange myself. I’m truly concerned that we have a large segment of population incapable of critical thought!

          When WM pointed to the sealed evidence and other aspects we all have mentioned in one way or another from the perspective of her being a sex crimes former prosecutor. What i found interesting is that she mentioned that the way Caylee was found with the duct tape was more indicative of a mob hit that accidental murder. She’s basing her opinion off of her knowledge of prostitution, Sex abuse and the way children can become involved because child sex abuse and adult porn etc can overlap. She alludes to a few scenarios that could have happened that are just as valid as anyone elses imo but her facts seem to contradict other people’s. She seems to be convinced that KC wasn’t driving the car that day everyone presumes lil Kaylee to have expired. She refers to J.A.’s own post-trial video where he comments that he was suprised more wasn’t revealed by JB about KC being involved in prostitution and/or KC’s sexual abuse. She seems to imply that J.A. had to use a weak motive because the evidence was sealed and being used to investigate porn and child sex rings for an even bigger purpose. Did you listen to that from J.A. post trial video? Also, it either mentioned by her or a commenter that Caylee did behave overtly sexual for her age based on testimony from Casey’s associates. She mentions that abandoned house a lot and says it was owned by a Zeinada someone?? Is that true? I don’t remember reading that before and if I had, I would have associated the two quickly as she had as being the Zanny place that KC refered too. If Caylee was overly friendly with men, I would say that is a sign that their is a lack of boundaries for sure (which we already know) and that she very well could have been sexually abused too. Wendy Murphy also mentions how the friends seem to have similar stories and that someone knows something. I agree. AD would be a person I would want to sit down with because all her, “I didn’t want to be the person who knew” statements bothered me. I was thinking, “why the hell not you dumbass a child was missing and that trumps friendship and the no ratt code people have anyday! So I wonder if she knew more or had seen something she knew to be off but also knew that if she discussed it, she might be in trouble herself and I’m speaking legal trouble but other trouble that is worse! Do you have an opinion on KC’s friends?

          People presume that if Casey was sexually abused she would protect her daughter from it but as we know that is not always the case! And people say there was no physical evidence that Kaylee or KC were abused due to old pediatrician records and school records, but if that were a solid tool pointing easily to sex abuse that wouldn’t more abuse cases be easily uncovered?? I want to listen to the J.A. press conference. I never thought that listening to him would reveal much but I’m learning that everyone has something to add to this puzzling picture. GA was overkill with his weird denials and the “thou doth protest too much” came to mind when he was on Dr. Phil. When you watched this case unfold, did you see him as money hungry as others did?

          OH I can’t wait to see what you think about KC’s behavior and how it may prove she was a victim of C.S.A.

          Also, what is your opinion of Lee? I think he was an after the fact person but had motive to keep it in the family. Is it common in these investigations to run paternity tests on family members?

          Looking forward to hearing your thoughts:)))

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          HEY!
          You always give me so much to think about! Love it :D.

          Ok.. So, first, I don’t think it is rude to reference other blogs. It may make some people feel “disloyal” to a blogger, but I think it’s OK if it’s helping the topic along. That opinion may vary based on the blogger, though. As far as the comment on SG’s blog to you (was that YOU?), I didn’t want to blast it due to the nature. You know what I mean? 🙂

          I am going to read the page you linked me to after I comment back here. I have not followed JA’s post trial appearances but I will check them out. I do plan to get the book and many others. Like you, I want to see all sides for the biggest picture available. I am also going to watch his Dr. Phil interview.

          AD was one person who may have known SOMETHING was wrong, I think because she said that Casey had come to her one day prior to all of it and told her that she was feeling crazy, like she was having a breakdown and was thinking she might need to be committed. After this AD asked Casey what was going on, and Casey told said she had spoken w/her MOTHER and that everything was OK after that. There was another family friend (Michelle something) who reported something similar. So it seems on a few occasions she showed signs of distress and needing help. She said in her letter to Robyn that, after the Lee-abuse, she sought out help on her own, when she was 18. This seems to have been how she came to forgive her brother for what she alleged he had done to her. I wish Casey would have allowed that doctor to be brought to the surface to at least confirm that Casey had visited them.

          When it comes to old medical records not “proving” Casey had ever been molested, that is just absolutely ridiculous thinking!! How could regular doctor visits determine such a thing? Children are not internally examined as a routine. Casey hadn’t even been to a gynecologist until she was pregnant, IIRC. Just because no signs were noted in the doctors records does not mean there was no abuse. How ignorant can people be?? One also has to wonder why a nurse would not want to take their teen-aged daughter to the gyn., but we can’t really draw any conclusions from that, alone.

          What bothers me a whole lot is the fact that we have two accounts of Casey being choked by her own parents. One was by Cindy (according to Lee) and one was by George in front of the Padilla crew. Choking is very personal and malicious. It is an attempt to dominate and control a person. It shows uncontrollable rage. If this was witnessed by virtual strangers, we can only imagine what may have been done in private. I know what it’s like to be extremely enraged, but I have never even thought of putting my hands around anyone’s throat. This says A LOT to me about what went on in that house.

          There are a few of Casey’s friends that I have concerns about:

          Jesse Grund, but not so much anymore.

          Ricardo Morales and his apparent obsession w/ Casey after they finally called it quits. Casey and Caylee were at his house on June 9th and 10th. On the 10th Casey and Ricardo had it out. 6 days later, Caylee is gone. I don’t know how that would tie in w/everything else we have thought of, but having experience w/a stalker, I couldn’t help but wonder if he had something to do w/it. I also think it’s plausible that RM may have had something to do w/Amy’s missing cash. Amy said RM was a weird one who showed very little emotion about anything… You have to wonder..

          Tony? I believe he def had some type of rap-sheet or was associated w/some criminal types. His house was robbed one night (Lee heard) and the robbers took like 5,000 worth of drug products. I hear nothing more of this but Lee asked Tony about it on Tony’s undercover video of his meeting w/Lee. I have to look that over again. I think it’s possible Tony was extra compliant w/LE due to some of the above.

          Amy? Hmmm… I’m not sure if I think Amy was so bad but, I think the fact that she dated RM after Casey may have caused some petty resentment that influenced the way she handled things later. I may just end up having to do a post on the friends, huh? LOL

          Lee? I think he is a strange one. But he was the “smartest” one of the bunch w/his whole “investigation” and being so helpful to the cops. Notice how he got in good w/the friends after Casey was found and later arrested? They were getting together to go over timelines and going to the movies and all that dandy stuff. When the group got together and discussed the events, I do have to wonder if there wasn’t some peer pressure or influence on who remembered what. They were all pretty young, and to them the whole thing had an element of excitement and made them feel important. I don’t doubt some of their recollections were gussied up a bit. Lee was the ringleader. Lee claims Casey’s had a blank blue screen when he found it at Tony’s. So the question is, who wiped it? Tony or Lee? I know Casey did not. How could she have? She didn’t know what was about to happen… Unless Amy had called or texted her and warned her that she and her mom were on the way. But if Amy had the mind-set to warn Casey, why didn’t she just tell Cindy she didn’t know where Casey was or how to get there? You know? So Casey did NOT do it, IMO.

          I’m on ramble mode today.. lol So sorry. I will try to get into more depth in my posts. I hope I answered you questions well enough for now, Sonja. 🙂

        • sonja says:

          “As far as the comment on (initials) blog to you (was that YOU?),”.Oh now I’m really confused and need to read back. I missed the comment if it was intended for me. And I’m getting everyone’s initials mixed up now:)

          If it was on the mission blog, I can understand the blogger getting after me because I am confused at times. I feel like I don’t have enough back ground knowledge to comment sometimes and have more questions than answers. I thought I was clear in that I jumped into the reading of this case late, may have facts mixed up and have more questions than answers. I wonder if the Wendy Murphy comment angered someone? I’ll have to go back and read the
          comments through again. However, if i feel i was treated kind of harsh on one of the three blogs i regularly comment on, i’ll still read it, but likely refrain from commenting again:) If it was the blog where the poor blogger is harrassed continually, I hope I didn’t irk that person because iwhat she is going through with the harasser sucks as i was attacked myself one night by “wandering” as well on said blog. I guess i have my own lil mystery to solve now:)
          I don’t have the background knowledge most of you have and some may find that irritating. I do have the sense to know that things are way off with KC, how she is perceived, her odd treatment by her family who threw here like garbage to the media and a potential death penalty and I want to learn more about why! I like this blog because you answer my questions. Did you know I did not know what HLN meant until one week ago?
          I’m glad you brought all those points about choking. I do see it as the person having some extreme rage toward the person and I agree that KC was abused. I can’t think otherwise because she also lied about anything negative that she did, happened to her etc… It was as if she existed alone and without benefit of emotional support from her own family and I find that to be very sad for her. No matter what happened, i think her parents played a role in this matter because she wasn’t one of the born sociopaths. Her family would have presented themselves differently if they were innocent in all this. I bet GA will irritate the crap out of you when you watch Dr. Phil!

          ” Casey hadn’t even been to a gynecologist until she was
          pregnant, IIRC.” And she did NOT receive prenatal care either too?
          Right? If so, something is not right as in the family was hiding more than a pregancy imo.

          “I wish Casey would have allowed that doctor to be brought to the surface to at least confirm that Casey had visited them.” What? She
          declined that in her trial? I wonder if that means that she wouldn’t
          want the other things she talked about to come out too which again doesn’t mean guilt imo, it means she vented a lot and the MHC notes about her visits could have been taken so many different
          ways.

          About Tony – i didn’t know that about the drugs. If he were that
          involved in drugs, and that is a culture I understand things about, then he could have very well brought trouble around Caylee. DId he wear that wire to avoid a charge then?

          Were these people thoroughly investigated? This gives me more to think about. I need to finish reading your comment though. I will back on tonight after dinner and homework:))))

          WOW!

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I think the only prenatal care she may have had was around her 7th month when her folks say they found out and started going w/her to appts. She may have known enough to eat well and stop drinking. She could have picked up some prenatal vitamins on her own.

          I was thinking the same thing about the doctor. Maybe she didn’t want her privacy invaded. Or maybe she didn’t think about the possibility of that info helping her case. The Dr would not have been able to disclose any info about their visits w/out Casey’s permission, either way. But the defense could have kept it out because they thought it could hurt the case for it to be known that Casey had sought mental health care. It could have been used against her instead of for her. Most sociopaths don’t think there’s anything wrong w/them. They don’t seek help. So if she had, in fact gone to see a mental health dr, or counselor could have actually shed a more positive light on her. No matter what was said though, the talking heads and the public would have found a way to twist it against Casey. No matter what. So she was screwed either way. Fortunately the jury left all the bull out of their decision.

          I didn’t know about any harsh comments made toward you on the first site. And I saw on SpiderGirl’s Baby Irwin post that the two of you got attacked. Don’t mind them, please. I was talking about an off-topic comment you left on that same blog? Did you comment on SpiderGirl’s site, or do I have you mixed up w/another Sonja? Well, either way, I also commented back to your comment over there if that was you. I just wanted you to know that I had replied :). Sorry if have caused confusion by not being direct. The discussion was about stalkers? Ringing any bells?

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Oh I didn’t finish, I did see the Dr. Phil show w/the Anthony’s and, at first I was feeling like maybe I had been too harsh on G. But I watched it again and saw some signs of deception and forced emotions. They both have gotten better if they are acting…

          Tony’s room mate was actually the one who had his stash ripped off. IDK if that scenario ever actually occurred, but Lee brought it up on the undercover video Tony did for LE. I need to see the video again. You should check it out too.

        • HollysGmom says:

          I agree with EVERYTHING COL!!!

          AD: WTF? SHe didn’t want to know?? Maybe she KNEW too much already

          RM: OBSESSED plus there is an undercurrent of abuse running through that crowd. THey talk about a couple who broke up and the girl was SHUNNED as a result. When asked to clairify Amy refuses based on it being “personal”. BULL!!! Why did the entire GANG ostracize that girl? EVERYONE had to stop being friends with her since she & their friend broke up? Was this why Casey left ALL of her previous friends to go hang out with TonyL’s crew? Media and others made it a huge deal that she “dropped” all of her friends. Well, maybe ALL OF HER FRIENDS dropped HER!! Revisit the texts between Casey & Amy about RM after June 10 2008. Casey seems apologetic to Amy, like she knows she has to be “nice” about RM to her. Casey tells Amy of RM’s request to still have sex with him BEHIND TonyL’s back. Was there a threat attached to that request if she didn’t comply? The shirt from remains evidence only PROVEN to be in existence BY RM!!! It could only be documented via photos from his apt & his Globe article.

          Amy: I have many concerns about Amy. People ask why would Casey have Amy send personal items to Hopespring in preperation for the event of moving in if she was never going to have a chance to move in? My question is why would Amy send thing to that house in preperations to move in if she wasn’t SURE it was going to happen? We only have Amy & Cindy’s words on it, right? I have many other thoughts on Amy and the case.

          TonyL: He WAS given a “walk” by LE on his DRUG DEALINGS. The transcripts prove it. They tell him “We’re not worried about what you’ve been doing. We’re more concerned with the missing child”. They talk about pot deals, others around them buying pills (another friend in the RM crew also got a walk for dealing pills on the side) but it was conveyed to TonyL that his “COOPERATION” in this matter would determine whether he was charged for dealing or investigated further, etc. Yes, he & his friends were at least pot dealers, maybe more.

          Ealrier, upthread there was mention of people asking why there was no proof of Casey being sexually abused. It’s a pretty easy answer really. IF there had been proof found of such….NONE of this would have ever happened. Why? Because anyone who would have had a record of such or suspicions of such would have MANDATORILY had to REPORT it to the authorities and then there would have been some type of investigation. Personally I think Lee could have exonerated Casey but chose not to. Why? He would have had to admit in open court & to the WORLD that he too was sexually abused by George. It’s hard enough for a female to accuse /out dad…imagine how hard it would be for a male, especially him & within this case.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          AMEN!

          I have some thoughts on Amy as well. I’m sure we will get into them soon. I do have to call it a wrap for the night :(, but feel free to continue to share anymore thoughts you have, and I will be back to check it out soon :)!

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Agh!! I had a whole reply going on the Wendy Murphy excerpt and I LOST IT ALL!

          Let me try again.

          BURDICK: “Did you see, observe her [Casey] gathering up photographs or videos, anything like that, images of Caylee”?

          CINDY: “Yeah, she―”

          BAEZ: “I’m going to object at this time.”

          First, we need to clarify that “she” was in reference to Casey and not a female officer conducting a house search. In order to do that we have to read the full transcript. I’m going to do that, myself 🙂

          2nd we have to look at the way the question was phrased:

          BURDICK: “Did you see, observe her [Casey] gathering up photographs or videos, anything like that, images of Caylee”?

          Caylee was the last word of that extended question. It seems to me that Cindy may have been ready w/her answer prior to the question being completed. But we can’t know this since Cindy was forbidden to finish answering the question. Her answer may not have been about pictures of Caylee. If it was regarding pictures of Caylee, they didn’t have to include pornographic photos…

          Think about it. You have lewd photos of your kid in the house, are you going to be gathering them up in front of your MOM? Not likely, right? Unless mom was spying on her when she saws her doing this, I doubt Casey would have allowed anyone to see her gathering pornographic pictures of anyone.

          On the other hand, we do have a LE interview transcript where George talks about 1200 +/- photos found of Casey, on the computer, w/her in “compromising positions”… He claimed that he got “sick” over them, he said that “even Lee could tell” them, he “got sick”. That sounds a tad over-dramatic to me. I mean, why does he feel the need to claim he has a witness to him getting sick?

          I think these are more likely to be part of the photos that were sealed. The reference to “PHOTOS” set Baez on edge and he was being safe, rather than be sorry later. Burdick could have been talking about a whole different set of photos.

          I will read the transcript tonight and come back w/any new thoughts.

        • sonja says:

          Cat when you read the court transcripts what site do you read from? Secondly, how do you know which transcript pertains to what? I look up court documents but get lost reading it all. Is there a place where it is well organized? No worries because I was only confused for a minute. I figured both bloggers wouldn’t have gotten angry and I missed a comment which i read this morning:) If you ever read the blogs on myspace, well, people were so rude to each other I stopped reading and some were good blogs! Now people know how to blog and “while taking the trash out”… hehe You guys don’t put up with that nonsense and its refreshing!

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          The sites I have used for transcripts goes from docstoc.com, acandyrose.com is a good one, but right now, I’d say go to the hinkymeter.com searchable discovery. They have much more than acandyrose and docstoc can be hard to find everything you want. I have been all over the place to find hard to find docs but The Hinky Meter is a good source for sure.

          MySpace is like a ghost to me now but I still have a page. I used to blog there but I never had any issues because it was poetry. While searching for Casey related stuff I have come back across it and scanned some blogs. I do see what you mean! That goes on at WordPress too, but JB’s site is a good example of keeping it classy. I kept coming across her posts on the case, before starting up here, and that is what led me here 😀

          Thanks JB!

        • HollysGmom says:

          I just wanted to say that I DO know what you mean about MS blog wars and I am currently in a war with some Hater on You Tube because of my WM posts. LOL The Hater doesn’t like WM because she thinks she is trying to prove GA is involved. LOL Not even close! WM is trying to prove that Casey is worse then originally thought or at least that was her “angle” she was using but people automatically aussumed she was trying to HELP Casey. I told the Hater “Geez, here is evidence that could possibly TRUELY make Casey the most hated person in the World and you refuse to even consider it?” LMAO! Haters, they don’t think clearly.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          LOL! The world is full of some crazy, out-there people. The sad part is that they don’t seem to be capable of forming their own thoughts… And It just really seems that Casey was just one good target for the projection of their self-loathing and pent-up anger… Sounds a lot like what Jesus went through..

          LOL! Let’s see how they take to THAT ;). Not that any haters are allowed here.

        • HollysGmom says:

          I LOVE the idea of a blog hub! Add me too please! Everyone! LOL!

        • HollysGmom says:

          Could it be that CINDY was the house occupant who google the OTH episode? Was Cindy also a fan? Maybe. Was that episode reference another “Caylee is dead & accidentally drowned/died, we’re covering it up” reference? IMO, YES!

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          If we could only know, huh?? I also think the OTH search may have been innocent. It was missed and someone wanted to catch up. But it is def a thought.

  11. sonja says:

    I tend to be idealistic sometimes. Sad the world is like that at times.

  12. sonja says:

    The first thirteen lines of the poem are in keeping with the overall theme of the poem. If CA penned it then she’s discussing a person of power and how alone that person is. It flows right along with her martyrdom post to KC. She is expressing that she feels lied to, betrayed, and it implies she suspects Caylee is dead.

    The last four lines deviate from that theme and I see where you think they may have been added in. Or CA just doesn’t want to appear that dark. CA IS someone who holds her head high and thinks of herself as a person who loves unconditionally so I’m not convinced that she didn’t write the whole thing. By sending it to KC she could be saying “I know” in some weird dark way. She could even be saying, I still love you KC because she does love KC in her own weird way. Who knows – these people were off and I think they could have been writing this way because they can’t communicate well or they can’t communicate because they are hiding something.

    So then CA posts the “My Caylee is Missing” blog to keep up appearances and because she is angry at KC. I suspect she’s been angry with her for years. Everyone in this family seems to have mixed emotions but GA. He has one version and he is sticking to it all the way through Dr. Phil.

    So if KC posts back this poem penned by her mom I think she is responding directly to the words in CA blog. KC’s reactive to her mother’s criticisms! She’s got to be confused by this poem and then the blog by her mom. These are mixed messages and both children and adult children need clear messages. KC didn’t even tell CA she was having trouble in school or that she lost her job.

    So she’s upset that her mom sends her so many mixed messages. She’s implying the questions CA raised in her blog were already answered by CA the first time. To me she is saying, what do you mean by this post where you put me down, when you already said those other things in the other poem? Why do you contradict yourself? It’s crazy kind of like the people in American Psycho although getting into that movie and why she posted it would take 5000 more words on your blog. I never thought she listed that movie though because she thought herself a powerful killer (like many other people did). I think she used the movie to depict what she thought of the world in which she lived.

    So she is literally and figuratively saying by posting CA poem that “People lie” including you mom, you said so yourself, right here in this poem you hypocrite. You are so confusing, so pretentious and why do you send me this one day and post that the next. Mom, everyone we know tells lies especially you, including me, including everyone. I’m alone. You are alone. We have all been deceived. It implies to me that KC is talking about some type betrayal and her anger over it. Anger at her mom moreover anger at someone very important. Anger is sadness and loss at a violated expectation. It seems that she and her mom both felt that way. I think the positive tone at the end a very kid-like ending and I could see KC adding this in not wanting to seem to DARK and knowing everyone is thinking she wrote it. If she added it she didn’t add it in to be devious. I think she was at that point considering her audience as a whole. However, if CA wrote the poem, sent it to KC and I’m of the opinion CA wrote the whole thing, then it sounds like CA imo and makes much more sense in the context that she sees herself as the never-ending VICTIM who does everything for everyone while getting nothing back.
    i hope this doesn’t make you angry – not sure how you feel about the Anthony’s and it was a big mind puzzle to put myself in both their minds based on what I know:))) I could be in left field.

    • catoutloud says:

      AWSOME work, Sonja!

      Thank you for that in-depth analysis. Great insight, too. I especially agree w/ the last paragraph. Sociopaths often see themselves as the never-ending victim, and in the case of the Anthony’s, I’m having a very hard time picking out the true sociopath in that family. Could George and Cindy’s coupling have been that of a “wicked attraction”?

      I am not at angered by your post! I’m all about getting to the TRUTH, even if it turns out it’s not what I thought or hoped it would be. I tend to be in favor of Casey not being the cold-blooded killer of her offspring, that most of the world believes her to be. I definitely feel that the Anthony family is highly dysfunctional, but I’m just not sure, yet, to what degree. I’m on a mission to find out, if that is ever to be found out ;). Whatever your leanings are, you a very welcome to post your thoughts and opinions here.

      • sonja says:

        Me too! I’ll apologize if the Anthony’s were victimized by their daughter but for now i need to stick with what i know to be true about family dynamics. As a parent I can’t imagine NOT knowing how well my kids are doing in high school if they were in high school. Who doesn’t ask for a grade report? And hiding or not knowing a pregnancy existed than doting on the grandaughter while excluding the daughter? Who hides not having a job for two years from their parents? My mom and i were discussing a time 11 years ago when I was having trouble and withdrawing and had i NOT produced her grandchild she would have had no problem reporting a concern. She has trouble believing that the parents weren’t involved somehow.
        How could they NOT know that this nanny didn’t really exist when KC was bringing the grandchild they claim to have raised themselves to a non-existant person? These are all rhetorical questions where we know that the answers imply more than the questions asked.
        Don’t get me started on GA. If i were to bet on who was the sociopath it would be him and his wife only sees what she chooses to see because the rest is too painful. I do agree with some that at times KC acted cold but at times to me she just acted scared. Did you see that in her?

        • catoutloud says:

          Amen! You do seem to be in a good position to speak on the matter of family dynamics. You’re a teacher and it sounds like you work w/ kids who may be a product of such environments, although that is not always to blame. I know many sociopaths are born, but I also firmly, believe, that so many are “created”. Most known criminal sociopaths do have a history of abuse and trauma. That is something that needs to be addressed!

          Casey definitely meets the criteria of someone showing signs of abuse and trauma. From the pathological lying to the medically unexplained seizures.

          I too will apologize and admit my wrong, if the Anthony’s are not as messed up as they come off. I hate to judge or form opinions about who and what I do not know, but unfortunately that is all we’ve been given to work with for now.

  13. sonja says:

    Hi catoutloud! I found your blog on Spidergirl’s blogroll. Maybe I can help a little with this. When I refer to my teaching job, I used to work for a giant govt. contractor that contracts with prisons, youth facilities, jobcorp etc. I could log in from home from my personal laptop. I could access my work desktop but I couldn’t access certain files with personal information about students from home. However, I could email a document from my desktop at work to my home email. Perhaps CA typed the document at work and emailed it to KC from her personal email? In a corporate environment with stringent IT control, you still can download a word document to your personal email. I did it with lesson plans all the time. In fact, even though there are controls, the it people teach you ways around them should you need to work on paperwork at home. What do you think? Also, knowing that it’s likely CA wrote this instead of KC puts a very different spin on things. Let me think.

    • catoutloud says:

      Hey Sonja! Welcome to my little corner of the world. Thanks for stopping by! 🙂

      And thank you for helping out w/that dang PC info. So from what you said, it sounds like it’s even more likely that CA did, in fact, create that original DOD doc, yes? Did I understand you correctly? If so, YES, we DO need to try and get a feel of what the message may have been in sending it to Casey on July 2nd. And then we need to ponder the reasons why Casey may have used Cindy’s poem as her “response” to Cindy’s “Caylee” blog on MySpace. Every detail counts! I appreciate your input.. Let us know of any other thoughts you may have, for sure.

      • sonja says:

        Yes. In my experience with writing in a corporate environment one can write something in microsoft and send it to themselves or someone else to get around the IT barriers. Citrix is the monitoring software my comp used and it allows for that. I bet she could log in and write it on her desktop too from her home computer too. Her work said she couldn’t “access files”. It sounded like corporate
        doublespeak.

        I don’t think KC wrote it to look as if her mother wrote it at work. If she had thought of that she would have done other things that would written a ton of things that would have come out before don’t you think?

        • catoutloud says:

          And again, you answered an important question. Cindy did not have to be a work to send that email w/her work info. So you may have just helped us solve that little mystery. Yay! :D. Casey was hanging out at Amy and Ricardo’s that week, since Tony was in NY, and Cindy was at home on her 2nd vacation week trying hard to get Casey’s acknowledgment. She called her all through the night and early morning of the 2nd. Casey finally picks up around 7:30, then she calls Cindy at home and they spoke for a total of 25 minutes between the two. Whatever was discussed brings about the DOD, which Cindy emails to Casey… Hmmm

  14. justthinkin says:

    i was looking at the computer forensics and it says the D.O.D was created july 2nd and 10:42?am and the Caylee video says it was last accessed also modified july 2nd at 10:36am. So whoever wrote it seems like it was after watching that. maybe its what prompted that poem? unless it was copy and paste type of thing.
    also do you know what it means when it says the Caylee photo was last written on june 15th and file created June 17th?
    i don’t get why D.O.D. would have said the “of gentiva corporation” if it was a personal computer and wasn’t able to be accessed anywhere other than at Gentiva though i could see cindy using her log in name for the lap top.

    • catoutloud says:

      Hmm, interesting thought on the DOD/Caylee video connection. That’s something to think about…
      Now does the “last accessed” show when the file was last opened or when it was closed? Opened would make more sense, but what do I know? LOL.
      The video was quite long (I think about 30mins or so) but if Casey was looking at it, she didn’t have to be watching the whole thing, necessarily… Hmm….
      I do believe that the time of a file being “created” would happen once the document was saved. So…
      We now have Casey accessing the Caylee video file at 10:36am and CMANTHON of Gentiva coporations DOD Doc.file being created/completed/saved, 6 mins later, at 10:42am…
      Then another 9 mins later we have this same DOD doc. created/saved in the “bobby” account…

      I truly believe that Cindy sent that poem from work to Casey Via email,— unless there’s something on that PC to prove Cindy had it registered under “CMANTHON of Gentiva Corporation” before Casey took it over.
      Cindy wasn’t supposed to be at work that day but, I think she may have been. I recall during one of her LE interviews, when they were working on the timeline, they got into when she had been on her vacations. This may have been nothing, but she said something about it starting on the 2nd (IIRC, off I go to look it up) and then changed it all up. She shouldn’t have had any reason to deny being at work that day, if she was,so I’m not sure what that was about, but I found it odd. I think Cindy wrote/attached or copied and pasted it into an email to Casey that day and then Casey saved it in her docs.

      The file was written means, in this case, that the video was taken June 15th. It was created on the 17th when it was loaded from the camera to the laptop. I thought Cindy said, in court, that she witnessed Casey doing that after they watched the video on the night of the 15th… Huh? Maybe she uploaded the video onto the family comp that night and then uploaded it to her laptop on the 17th. IDK.

      • catoutloud says:

        There was very minimal contact between Casey and her parents for a few days prior to the poem being written by whoever. It shows here http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days.htm in the 31 day time line that the Anthony home had been calling Casey in the wee hours of the 1st and second. I think Cindy was doing whatever she could think of to get Casey’s attention. So maybe she sent the poem on the 2nd and then created her MySpace account on the 3rd, when the “Caylee” blog was written, since she wasn’t getting much of a response.

      • Justthinkin says:

        I didnt realize the short time between the video access and the creating of D.O.D.
        I checked my comp MSWdocs and the author is the log in name and since i have just that(no guest) all MSword docs say the same. Then i have a traveldrive with docs made and saved from other locations and though i feel a bit silly for doing this i sent a doc as an attachment to my email. When i saved it to my computer the author is still that of the place i saved/made the doc from not my comp/log in name. So I think it could have been a sent email attachment by cmanthon saved in the bobby file when downloaded to the laptop. when it says created on july 2nd, i think since its in the bobby folder despite being authored by CManthon means it may not have been literally created on july 2nd, but downloaded on to the lop top by casey that day? bc the date created on my traveldrive is from last year when it was made and when saved on my comp the date is of when i downloaded it.

        • catoutloud says:

          Not silly at all!! Good thinkin’, JustThinkin’! 😀 Keep it up!

          I’m so glad you did that. Now we are a little more clear on how that whole thing works. I did think about the possibility of the date being when the file was created/ saved to “bobby/ docs”, and not when it was originally created. Your little experiment has answered our question about that and we now know that it was, most likely, authored and sent by Cindy to Casey and Casey saved it to her docs on July 2nd. So for all we know Cindy went to work and sent it to her via email any time up until July 2nd.

          What I’m still confused about is the two different times. There’s the 10:42, when it was created by CMANTHON of Gentiva and then the 10:51, when it was saved to Casey’s “bobby/ docs”. I may have to go and do some research on that one. Let me know if you figure it out. It would sure help to know if that laptop was registered under “CMANTHON Of GENTIVA Corporation” or not. I haven’t had any luck in figuring that out, yet.

        • Justthinking says:

          well where it says bobby that could mean that was the log in name casey was signed in on the lap top, bobby is from the lap top isnt it? .08-069208\WXE906472668\C\Documents and Settings\bobby\Desktop\diary of days.doc”
          bc in my files where the lap top? file says bobby in mine it says the name i gave it. Unless theres another reason. also from the full path you can see it was located in the desktop window, either saved there or a short cut was created. hmm on the times, maybe when it showed up on the Bobby file (10:51) was when casey saved it after downloading it at 10:42am? but i could be wrong…
          I wonder how many users did the home comp and lap top had?

        • catoutloud says:

          I think the “08-069208” was the case number because I saw it attached to other items of interest that did not come from the laptop. There was a “bobby” and “casey” doc file on the laptop, so we know there were at least 2 user accounts on that one. As for the family PC, there could have been a user account for each family member, or everyone used the admin account. How do we find that out? IDK if that info is available to us or easy to find. Details details! We need to enlist the help of and IT person!! LOL

        • sonja says:

          I looked at an old document that I downloaded from work. I copied and pasted and saved the document from the web into Microsoft Word. Keep in mind that I would have emailed it to myself from between the hours of 8:00a.m. to 5:00p.m.. But check this out: the time it says the document was modified was on 12/24 9:26 p.m. and created on 12/24 9:26 p.m.. ( Yes i worked a little too much from home). Anyhow, I dropped it down from my email at that time but i created it at work during that business day. my point being that I think the time we see is the time it was downloaded from that computer and saved to desktop. It does not reflect the actual time it was actually written/saved at work though. Does that make sense?

        • sonja says:

          Where i worked the students would leave and fly home for two weeks during Christmas and New Years and we worked on preparation during that time. I didn’t work normal teacher hours.

        • catoutloud says:

          Absolutely! We are, for sure, a few steps ahead of where we started thanks to you and “JustThinkin”. So what would your opinion be on the original document showing that it was “created” on July 2nd at 10:42am and then, at 10:51am, ending up in the Casey’s “bobby” doc/files? Would you say that Cindy sent it to Casey via email and Casey saved it to her docs?

        • sonja says:

          I think that was Casey opened her email and read it. She doinked around on the web like she does then saved it nine minutes later. I say that because I would open and save all at the same time thus the times are the same on mine but their is a nine-minute difference on hers. It was created when she opened it although it was truly created when it was actually written. A tech once said Microsoft is a dirty program full of inaccuracy and now i see why:)

        • sonja says:

          “there” is a nine-minute… GRRR my spelling again.

        • catoutloud says:

          LOL, don’t be so hard on yourself. I’m sure there will be plenty of punctuation issues in my posts.

          We have reached the verdict (for now) that Cindy Anthony of Gentiva is the true author of that poem! I love it 😉

  15. JanCorey says:

    This case may hit-the-fan again after Baez files the lawsuits against the sheriff department where six officers were suspended, transferred, fired, or other-disciplinary actions against them after having inappropriate Casey Anthony during her incarceration at the jail. Get ready, it’s coming…………………….

  16. JustThinkin says:

    Hi In response to the other comment on the doll blog, yes its me 🙂

    Didn’t Cindy have vacation that week though? At webslueth in an old topic forum on this it did come up on why it said cindy anthony created . This was from way back in 08 before the info that cindy could not have accessed her job from her lap top so most there believed she could so that’s why it said that. Then I saw a comment suggesting that when cindy registered the lap top she could have used her work info, i dont know that much about comps. so i dont know if that could be an explanation as to why it looks like cindy created the file at work. Either way how could it have been a response if it was created before cindys blog and Casey put it in a blog not in a comment to cindy or a msg(that i know of). Was she even cindys myspace friend? because thats the only way Casey would have known about “my Caylees missing” unless someone told her about it. If cindy was her friend/caseys myspace wasnt private then she could have seen what casey was up to and reached out to her friends sooner than july 15 no? honestly imo cindys blog was more for herself than trying to get to Casey . In turn diary of days could have been for casey too. Its like in 2 parts, 1st is basically life is tough, there are no guarantees, and you only have yourself to rely on, 2nd but don’t let that bring you down, theres a bright side, you must keep going. at least that’s what i take from it. If there was msg for cindy in there, like you say, what could it have been? who and how did they get the idea D.O.D. was a response to Cindy?

    • catoutloud says:

      Yay! 🙂 Good to see you over here. You always have something real and interesting to bring to the table, so, please, keep coming back.

      Cindy was on vacation that week and that was one of the things that stumped me on this. Even though Cindy was supposed to be on vacation, I don’t think it would have been all that odd for her to have gone in for a few hours if the need arose. We have no way of knowing if she did at this point, so it’s still a matter of speculation here. I know Cindy said that she set that MySpace page up, specifically, to get through to Casey. So if that’s the case, I would assume she sent Casey a friend request. Casey may not have accepted, but she was now aware that Mom was on the scene, and she probably took a look over there from time to time. I think Casey’s page was public at that time too, so Mom could see everything regardless if she was added or not. I believe Ryan Pasley had said something about Cindy calling him and telling him he should stop hanging out w/Casey because “she’s a sociopath” and she didn’t want him to get hurt. According to him, this conversation happened before July 15th. So that would imply that Cindy knew something was amiss prior to that day. Did she know something was “amiss”, or was she doing damage control? That’s the question.

      Assuming that Cindy wrote that blog for her daughter to see, and assuming Casey saw it, it would make sense that Casey chose to respond via blog, as well. I have seen many silly blog wars going on from my own MySpace days, LOL, so we know that it would not be an unusual occurrence, at least.

      Let’s get on to the subject of user accounts and info. I also have thought time and time again that since it was Cindy’s laptop, maybe Casey simply wrote the poem in Cindy’s documents and then realized her mistake and transferred it into her own documents. But it kept bugging me, so finally, I went and searched some more. That’s when I found that Cindy could not work from outside of work. That would lead me to assume that the laptop was not work issued. So if it was not work issued, and she couldn’t do much computer work from home, why would the DOD doc show up as “CMANTHON of GENTIVA Corporation”? I get if she chose to use her work account info at home, since she would be already accustomed to doing so. But (I’m not an IT type either) I ASSUME, w/ what knowledge I do have, that the “GENTIVA” part would not have been included on her personal computer. I feel like, that part being in there, is showing WHERE the document originated from. I’d have to go look again at the actual computer forensics search results, but I don’t recall us seeing any other docs or searches done under that name/account. Casey had been using Cindy’s laptop for quite some time at that point, and never once do we see a repeat of her doing anything else on that account. How come?

      Like you said, the poem seems to be in 2 parts, the dark side and the light at the end of the tunnel. Who knows if that last part was edited in. But from what we know, that blog, DOD, was posted in Casey’s blog on July 7th. Cindy was trying to get Casey’s attention and it would make sense, if CINDY wrote it, that she sent it to her via email on July 2nd . Maybe she didn’t get any response, so she decided to create the MySpace account on July 3rd, hoping for better results. Then Cindy went crazy trying to get Casey to call her or come home and sent Lee on that July 3rd mission to find her. You see where I’m coming from? The sequence of events makes sense, to ME, at least ;). Following those events, Casey sees Mom’s friend request, looks at her page and sees the blog title “My Caylee Is Missing”. Maybe Cindy sent her a msg telling her to read her blog? Anyway, she reads the blog and comes back w/ her own… But, then again, it’s NOT her own. It’s Cindy’s own poem she responds with.

      If this is how it went, we have to try and decipher the meaning. It could be a waste of brain cells, but it would definitely change things if Casey is not the one who authored that poem. If the blog was not an indirect response to Cindy’s, then did she just decide to copy mom’s poem and front like it was her own? It’d be nice to have seen how many other blogs Casey had on there, and how they compared to the DOD poem.

      Let me know if you come up w/ anything.

      • JanCorey says:

        This case is far from over imo, not sure just how long that statute-of-limitations governs this case due to several lawsuits expected originating from so many different states in regards to alleged illegal actions by the prosecutors, the sheriff’s department, the judge, and the media but I am sure Casey will reap benefits for decades to come in her benefit on her behalf. Too bad the state of Florida prosecution just simply didn’t prove their case in the first place, instead of making Casey a multi-billionaire (soon).

        • catoutloud says:

          If so many illegal actions took place against Casey, and it turns out she is actually innocent of the crimes she was charged with, then IMO, she deserves whatever benefits she reaps as a result. Should be a big lesson learned by ALL involved but somehow I doubt all will take heed. 😉

        • JanCorey says:

          I expect the time-frame of events in her behalf where she benefits will be at least over the next decade at the very least. And, likely, all actions will be eliminated from public scrutiny, as Casey swims daily in the full-size pool where she currently resides and drinks margaritas to oblivion. .

        • sonja says:

          Don’t you think there is merit in a lawsuit based on the non-computer searches done? We were all led to believe one thing and then the big OOPS comes at the end?

        • catoutloud says:

          YES! If they got that wrong what else did they get wrong? Casey saw the “win her over w/chloroform” comment of Ricardo’s, and looked it up. Done deal. LE took that chloroform thing and ran a freakin’ marathon w/it! Who, in America, needs to look up “ALCOHOL”, “PEROXIDE”, or “ACETONE”? Any woman who gets her nails done knows what acetone is. Most nail-polish removers contain acetone. If she had tips put on she would know to use “acetone-free” remover. The other two are everyday household items. No need to look them up!

          Who searches “shovel”? Only a man would look up shovels. Maybe George was browsing for a new one? The fab/falsification of evidence was taken so far that they cut of their nose to spite their own faces. Unbelievable!

        • sonja says:

          But that is so disheartening… Would LE do this? Is it simply because she lied to them and that implied guilt or because they had more much more motive than that. One would think they are familiar with people lying all the time ; people even admit to crimes they didn’t commit but LE still gets to the bottom of it. I admit she told some grand tales but still?

        • catoutloud says:

          Many in positions of power have huge egos. Not to talk down on LE’s, but they also know not all of their ‘creed’ have the same level of integrity, or the most commendable intentions. It’s just a fact.

          I think it obviously started off badly, due to Casey’s lies. That whole thing rubbed them the wrong way and I can totally see why they thought she was guilty of something, and really, we can’t logically rule that out completely. The problem is, it is their job to keep an open mind, and look into to all the possibilities. Instead, they were pissed, and felt their time was being wasted by this lying fool, and that helped hone their focus in on Casey. They messed up there. Once they heard about the shovel incident, they thought they had it all figured out. Over time it just became about proving they were right… Even if they weren’t.

          It’s possible they suspected George, but knew they wouldn’t be able to prove that so late in the game, so Casey became the fall guy. Maybe they thought someone would break before it all came down, but in the meantime, someone had to be held accountable. After all, the world was watching.

        • HollysGmom says:

          One thing that I keep reminding myself of….

          Mr Baez, while not lying or directing or allowing anyone to do so… used the information gathered by the PT … took a 180 degree look at everything & came out swinging with the best “senario”.

          While this may not have been exactly what happened to Caylee it
          was the best “option”.

          Knowing this I have to believe that the PT ….DID the SAME! THey KNEW various aspects or “evidence” was not only wrong but flat out MANUFACTURED but chose to use it to create their best senario. (Which SUCKED LOL)

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Yes Ma’am! I am in agreement. I hope in 10 years someone ends their silence and speaks up on the corruption that went on behind these scenes (and so many others). It seems at the 10 year mark many of these cases are revisited and exposed. Hopefully it will be sooner, this time!

      • GasCanGeorge says:

        If I can remember correctly, Cindy was off the week of her birthday which landed on June 7th?
        She turned 50 I believe. There must’ve been some real friction since CAsey did not celebrate with her mother as well as June 15th father’s day. I do believe Caylee was with her grandmother both on her birthday and father’s day/? So, Cindy had time during her vacations to post whatever she wanted. Also she had ample time to “Redo” the backyard on her second vaca.

        I also remember hearing that Casey was upset with her mother for posing as her on the computer, etc, etc……just sayin.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Yes. And those are a few of the reasons that I did not assume that poem was Casey’s. I also recall Cindy having gone online and corresponding w/people pretending to be Casey and that Casey was pissed about that. There was a witness to that. Makes us have to continue to wonder, right?

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