“It smells like there’s been a dead body in the damn car!!”

We all know that  infamous and damning statement Cindy Anthony made in her 911 call, don’t we?  Old news, you say?  Maybe so, but it’s the statement that started it all and it’s not over yet.

Now that the trial is over and Casey Anthony has been found not-guilty of murdering her child, 2 1/2 yr old, Caylee Marie Anthony, we have had the chance to step back and take a look at the bigger picture.  If you have a not I’ll give you a minute to do so right now. . . . . .

O.K.  So you’re looking.  Pondering.   Thinking….  Is your head starting to spin yet?  Good.  You thought that part was over, huh?  Not quite.  I bet you, like myself, have even more questions than you did BEFORE the trial ended, right?

It is for that reason that I am here, typing away, in random order, about the Casey Anthony case.

Let’s get down and dirty with a breakdown of the garbage found in  Casey’s trunk, shall we?

 

“Talking Trash”

Yes sir, yes sir, 2 bags full

THE CONTENTS:

  • Empty can of Pepsi
  • Empty can of Mountain Dew
  • Empty can of Dr. Pepper
  • Empty can of Cherry Coke Zero
  • Empty can of Milwaukee Best Light
  • Empty can of Coke Classic
  • Empty can of Sprite (2)
  • Container of Crystal Light Powder mix (empty)
  • Bottle of Crystal Light (small amount of brown liquid)
  • Container of Copenhagen chew (empty)
  • Container of Oscar Meyer Hard Salami (empty)
  •  Pizza box (empty)
  • Cardboard container of Kraft Velveeta Cheese
  • Two cardboard containers of Kraft Velveeta Dinners (empty)
  • Black plastic container (possibly from one of the Velveeta Dinners (empty)
  • Cardboard container of Cherry Coke (empty)
  • Bag of Stouffer’s Skillet dinner (empty)
  • Bottle of Arm and Hammer detergent (empty)
  • Can of Kiwi sneaker cleaner (empty)
  • Five fabric softener sheets
  • Miscellaneous papers
  • Soiled paper towels in baggie

PAPER TOWELS –

They found the fatty acids on the paper towels, in a baggie, in the trash. When looking at the scientific analysis of these towels, they said it could have been decompositional breakdown of adipocere (fatty tissue) from a pig or human.

OK, so when are we most likely to have paper towels saturated in fat? Um, can we say,” microwaving BACON”?  Why they were put in a baggie? IDK, we all have our own habits for dealing with grease.  I’d say, maybe to contain the bacon smell? Maybe to avoid a greasy mess if the trash bag broke?  Does it really matter?

So, OMG, somebody in the house had some bacon for breakfast! LOL.  Why didn’t THEY think of that?  All they had to do was get a pack of bacon, lay it on some paper towels in a microwave, press start and VIOLA!!!  You have your comparison sample and it’s a MATCH!  This is JMO, course, but I feel that would have been the case had they done such a test.

PIG + PACKAGE= BACON

BACON + MICROWAVE/HEAT SOURCE = ADIPOCERE  (FATTY ACIDS)

“BUT WHAT ABOUT THE THC?”

THC residue (found in marijuana) was also found in traces on these paper towels.

“WHY?”

Well, we all know that there was plenty of weed-smoking and hash-brownie baking in Tony Lazzaro’s kitchen.  So the answer is easy.  They cooked a blunt up in the microwave from time to time.  That’s IT.

How it got on the paper towel with the “fatty acids” is just as simple.  Bacon was microwaved, grease was spilled.  Grease had to be cleaned, so in go a few paper towels to the rescue, wiping up the bacon grease and THC residue.  DONE!

“BUT THEY SAID THEY SMELLED HUMAN DECOMPOSITION!”

  • Container of Oscar Meyer Hard Salami (empty)
  •  Pizza box (empty)
  • Cardboard container of Kraft Velveeta Cheese
  • Two cardboard containers of Kraft Velveeta Dinners (empty)
  • Black plastic container (possibly from one of the Velveeta Dinners (empty)
  • Bag of Stouffer’s Skillet dinner (empty)

The above items listed are all that which contained perishable food at one point, yes?

– We have two Velveeta Cheese Dinners.

– One cardboard container of Kraft Velveeta Cheese

COW = MILK = CHEESE

So, naturally, we can assume that there are ANIMAL proteins and FATTY ACIDS in milk/CHEESE products.  When these products spoil, they smell BAD.  Right?

– One Stouffer’s Skillet Dinner

Why is it that the TYPE of meal this was is left out of the description?  I can’t find it anywhere.  Was it broccoli, CHICKEN, WHAT??

Let’s just humor the idea that it was a chicken meal.  Now we have chicken in the bag, too.

CHICKEN = MEAT = FATTY ACIDS

** They did NOT use chicken in their lab tests for comparison, BTW.  In fact, what they used were certain animal remains that were, more or less, skeletonized!! 

These, mostly, skeletonized animals were used for chemical comparison in the testing of the fatty acids, trunk stain sample, and trunk “air” sample.

HUH??  Do I really need to comment on that one?

**Oh and get this, why did they take a dead squirrel,  leave it on a carpet sample (for comparison) and then let it decompose– in OPEN air? They put this poor squirrel in a trash can  with NO LID for a “few” days.  How is THAT going to produce the same type of results that it would have if it’d been enclosed in a hot trunk for 18 days? And they called that “comparison testing”? 

They said the odor was surprisingly minimal? Well ,no $H!T, SHERLOCK!! OPEN air decomposition, over a few days, is going to be MUCH less potent than decomposition of ANYTHING in a CLOSED trunk, for 18 days, in 90 and 100 degree weather.


One Container of Oscar Meyer Hard Salami

PIG = SALAMI = FATTY ACIDS

– One Pizza Box

COW = CHEESE = FATTY ACIDS

BUT THEY WERE ALL EMPTY! HOW COULD THEY SMELL?”

Yeah, they were “empty”— by the time the bag was found!

They were definitely empty once the state CSI examiners were done with them.  Once they put them in the DRYING MACHINE.  HELLO.

Talk about destroying evidence.

And even before it was brought in as evidence and tested, think about how long it had been in the trunk —- with the flies and maggots having a feast!  It was in that trunk from before June 27th until July 15th.  That’s, at least, 18 days.  18 days in 90-100 degree weather.  That’s like taking your trash and putting it in the oven on warm for 18 days.  This garbage contained remnants of meats and cheeses.  There’s a reason why they are supposed to be kept refrigerated, you know.  I don’t think a whole lot of people know what 18 days of warmed garbage would smell like.  Anyone want to try it out and let us know?  Maybe send us an air sample? 😉

Here’s the other thing ,  another child’s remains were brought in for comparison :(.  This child’s body had been left in a car trunk for 3 months.  He, too, had been wrapped in a blanket.  They tested the blanket and it showed all types of decomposition elements, including blood.

There was NO BLOOD ANYWHERE IN THAT CAR.  OR at the crime scene for that matter.  I think it’s pretty safe to say that where there’s a body, there’s going to be blood.

So whatever it was that left the stain, or the smell in the trunk, did NOT contain blood.

I am not a scientist, but I’d say that the bloodless decomposition would be more consistent with cooked meats and cheese.

If there was any leakage of fluids, from a plastic wrapped body, to have left stains and persistent smells in the trunk, it would HAVE to have contained some blood. Right?  And blood, by itself, smells pretty nasty.  Without blood you’re missing a very important player in the odor of human decomposition!

IMHO there is no way that fluids were leaked from ANY fresh, raw body of ANYTHING, if there was NO BLOOD in the car. So, either the body was decomposed to the point that it was dry when it was put in the trunk (which means it’s not likely fluids would be leaking), the body was “cooked” (COME ON), or the stains and fatty acids had nothing to do with Caylee’s death.

Let me remind the skeptics that there were remnants of CHEESE (made from COWS), SALAMI (made from PIGS), and, MOST LIKELY, paper towels saturated in BACON GREASE (made from PIGS)— in this trash bag they found, among other trash items. If you see a picture (above) of the bag from the day it was recovered from the dumpster, it looked pretty messy inside the bag. What was shown later and in court was the intentionally “dried out” version. Why would they have DRIED the odor producing evidence??

Don’t forget the fact that there were flies and maggots IN THE TRASH BAG (as there are in any dumpster or trash can BTW), so the presence of these types of bugs does NOT ONLY imply there was a dead body involved. All you need is some food or food/trash to bring them about. Along with that, the fact that there was bug activity in the baggie and the trash bag, for 2-3 weeks and then some, explains why there may have been even LESS actual food residue and leftovers still in the bag. It was consumed by these bugs over time, before the car was found and trunk opened. So my point is, who knows how much salami, and cheese was still in the bag when it was first placed in the trunk?

Even if Caylee’s body had been in there at some point, she was supposedly wrapped in a quilt, then two plastic trash bags, and then a thick canvas laundry bag, and therefore, HIGHLY unlikely to have leaked ANYTHING more than an odor… That odor would have taken about a day to be produced and, once removed, that odor would have likely dissipated over time and NOT increased. The fact that it was in the enclosed trunk may have kept it in a bit longer though. I honestly don’t think any HUMAN body was left in there long enough to create such an odor that would actually increase over time and not the opposite.

So, tell me, people,  what do you conclude about the trunk evidence NOW?  Do you still think there was acceptable proof of human decomposition found in that trunk?

What I have presented here, on this blog, is the most elementary version of what I’ve found during my extensive research.  I can and will come with more.  But I will leave you with this to ponder, for the time being…

 

-CatOutLoud®-

Comments
  1. What’s up to all, how is the whole thing, I think every one is getting more from this web site, and your views are nice designed for new people.

  2. JanCorey says:

    When I saw the closing arguments, I tried to keep a hand-written list of all of their errors of the prosecution but their errors, imo, were occurring so fast I could not possibly keep up and ended up trashing the whole list on my part as they continued their trashing of their whole efforts so quickly and decisively. It was clearly insane, but anyone educated-enough and knowledgeable-enough in persecuting and defending defendants in cases, (which I am quite familiar with), saw an easy-win for the defense in this case. The prosecution failed miserably imo, yet all the medias were almost all, not just some, who screamed to high-heaven that the prosecution nailed the coffin shut on the defense up until the jurors came back with the only possible correct-jury verdict possible.

    • CatOutLoud® says:

      Amen! I am appalled by such people, how they use their minds—or how they DON’T use their minds, should I say.

      Maybe we should start selling thinking caps, 😉 (CHEESE) 😀

  3. CatOutLoud® says:

    Isn’t it just AMAZING how none of the CSI, LE, Cadaver dogs, Anthony family, who had spent quite a bit of time around the open car trunk, EVER reported feeling faint or passing out, from the “overwhelming” amount of chloroform?? Hmmmm…

    -CatOutLoud®-

    • JanCorey says:

      I saw on Greta Vansusteren that the levels in the trunk were not abnormal to any other type of car trunk. Maybe part of the reason for the acquittal (?).

      • CatOutLoud® says:

        There have been so many different claims on the trunk analysis but the State & Vass tried to have us believe that the chloroform levels were “EXTREMELY high”.
        IF that had been the case people would have been getting sick and passing out just from standing over the trunk for a period of time. I am not an expert but, from what we know of the chemical/drug, that is exactly what it’s supposed to do, and we didn’t hear any reports about that.

        Silly rascals, should have done some more homework before they tried to pull that one off. They just mucked up left & right! LOL

        • JanCorey says:

          Thought that was another mistake by the prosecution to destroy the car recently based upon how rapidly science and forensics is evolving if the prosecution was truly looking for the prosecution of the murderer of Caylee. Another mis-step by the prosecution imo, what are they up to now? Maybe a thousand errors by now?

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I’d say it was actually good for the Prosecution that the car was destroyed. They wouldn’t want such Tom-foolery being exposed. It was the Anthonys’ decision to crush the car, though. I think the car could have been used by the defense to prove how much more BS evidence was presented by the Prosecution.

        • JanCorey says:

          I see your point CatOutLoud, and you are right, there may be more benefit had the car been retained for the defense to use against the prosecution or even in the upcoming civil suits. My error, you are right, I apologize for being so stubborn on that issue.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Oh no, you have the right to your opinion, JC. No need to apologize. I just think that the defense, if they could have gotten their hands on some of this “evidence” after the fact they might find some good stuff. The prosecution used that car all up, squeezed it for what it was worth and added some gravy on top 😉

  4. JanCorey says:

    I see there is a movie in the works being made that will come out soon about Casey Anthony. Hopefully the movie points out just how inadequate the prosecution team actually was in the charges against Casey and how ineffective the prosecution team demonstrated to the whole country of their inadequate actions and why all the prosecutors involved in the case should be immediately disbarred and jailed for their crimes against the defendant. Casey only lied, the prosecution team did far worse.

  5. libby says:

    Hi catoutloud,

    I just wanted to stop by and say thanks for this blog. Great info and research here.

    I “thought” I was already following your blog but when I stopped by today I see that there are new posts that I never got notification on. So I am hoping that by making this post I will start getting notifications.

    thanks again!
    Libby
    (PS…I am adding you to my blogroll 🙂 )

    • CatOutLoud® says:

      Aw, shucks :D. Thanks Libby! I really appreciate that!

      As for the following, I’m not sure what could have happened. You’re not seeing it in your email? Well, hopefully it’ll work now. Let me know if not so I can try and figure out why. 🙂

      • libby says:

        Yes, it is working now that I have posted! I guess I am doing something wrong when trying to subscribe because the only way I seem to be able to subscribe is via a post. I guess just hiting the Follow button doesn’t do it?

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I really couldn’t tell you at this point. I’m too new here to know all the ropes yet ;). But I am glad it’s working now.

          You know I think it could have something to do w/the fact that I had to change my name up a bit, due to the fact that I saw another blogger on blogspot has the same name. I think their blogs are more about actual cats, but just so ya know, I only have one blog so far and this is it. So much for my “unique” blogger name, huh? lol 😀

        • libby says:

          It is so hard to come up with a unique name! It took me days, well weeks really, to come up with something that someone else wasn’t already using!

          Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it. And now I’ll be able to come read your new posts as they happen. Looking forward to more on this subject!

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I must admit, I didn’t do my homework! Lol

          And NP! Thanks for reading. I should have something new up in few days. SYS 😀

  6. JanCorey says:

    I appreciate your stance catoutloud as standing up for real Justice in this case is not a popular thing; there are so many uninformed people out there. Keep up the great work you are doing and Thank you.

    • catoutloud says:

      Aww, thanks for the props, Jan :). It means alot. Thank you. That is what I’m all about. Truth is what matters to me and, if I can help spread some, I’m all for it.

      Make sure you keep us posted over here. I am interested in hearing any updates you may have and any links you may want to provide.

  7. JanCorey says:

    There is more evidence that the prosecution made errors and criminal actions in the investigation and trial than Casey Anthony was alleged to have done in this matter. Fantasy-forensics, remember ? and an open checkbook of the tax-payers dollars, remember? Might be a better option to put the entire prosecution team in prison because they were alleged to be involved in more crime(s) than Casey Anthony, at least according to the proven facts.

  8. Pisces.1954 says:

    I do not believe that Casey Anthony would sit in jail for three years to cover up the death of her daughter without saying anything. She would not go to trial and risk being convicted of capital murder if she knew someone, anyone else did it.

    • catoutloud says:

      I disagree. Most people might roll over on GOD if he landed them in jail, facing life, for a crime they did not commit. But there are MANY people sitting in jail right now because they refused to break loyalty and snitch.

      I’m not sure yet, about what I think happened. I’m working on that.

      But, for arguments sake, picture yourself in a family that is all messed up on the inside. Maybe it contains psychological abuse, neglect, incest, addictions, beatings. But God forbid, you ever utter a word that might mar Mother’s precious and protected perfect family image. So what do you do? You learn to follow the leader. You learn how to best avoid the wrath of the hand that feeds you. You become meek and and put on that “happy face” whenever you walk out that door. You do what you’ve been taught to do all your life: “Protect the family by any means”… ACT like everything’s OK. You don’t abide by law— You abide by FAMILY law. Even if it means bold-faced lying… Even if it means going to jail, possibly forever. You’ve been living in a bubble (22 is still quite young these days). This is all you know. People have such a hard time considering how easy it is for some to be brainwashed/heavily influenced/swayed, but just look at how easily the MEDIA twists and turns the peoples’ minds into believing WHATEVER it is they want them to believe— JUST BECAUSE they SAID so!! So why is it so hard to believe that 22 years of dysfunction, at minimum, and long-term incest abuse, at most, would not be sufficiently able to warp and mold a young woman into complying w/that family’s laws? This is not just the stuff of movies and fairy-tales. This is reality. It’s happening every day and we will never truly know how much—- due to the fact that at least half, NEVER tell.

      Now let’s move on to the possibility that someone else is responsible for Caylee’s life being taken. Let’s assume, for now, that it was not an accident and Casey knows this. Her reason for not speaking up in such a case would be clear as bells. She’s covering for someone who MURDERED her baby girl in cold-blood. Why does she not “JUST TELL the POLICE”? She fears that what happened to Caylee could happen to her, is one reason. “But they would go to JAIL!”, you say? Well, maybe, but not if they have been working hard to frame YOU and YOU have NO EVIDENCE against them to prove it. That’s two. And if it was a family member– accident or not, you may have this extreme and warped sense of loyalty to them. If she was so cold, conscience-less and narcissistic, tell me WHY she never threw any REAL people into her stories? She could have “Framed” someone else, since she’d have no conscience to give a care. Right? She could have come up w/a much better story. IMHO…

      I’m gonna have to go on just a bit longer, to finish addressing your comment, so, please, bare w/me.

      You say you don’t believe she would sit in jail for 3 years covering for someone else. Well she DID NOT wait 3 years to speak up. She spoke up in October of 2008. There was an off-the-record LE meeting w/Casey and Baez. I wasn’t there and there’s no record of it, so I can’t tell you what all was said then, but I do know that a few days after this private meeting, Lee was approached by FBI for a DNA sample— for the paternity test. Coincidence? He refused. Lawyered up… And it wasn’t until he was court-ordered, a bit later on, that a DNA sample was obtained from him.

      So, she didn’t wait 3 years to “speak up”. She spoke up about SOMETHING in Oct. 2008 and had to do as any accused would, and await trial. For whatever reason, it took 3 years to get there.

      • JanCorey says:

        I agree catout;oud. You have great analytical skills.

        • catoutloud says:

          Thanks again, Jan! 🙂

          I am ALL about the details– sometimes to a fault, LOL. Anything you’d like to contribute or discuss is welcome here.

      • Noni says:

        Excellent cat! I was raised in “one of those families” that had a “face” we presented to the outside world as opposed to the reality we actually lived. It continued into my own young family until circumstances and maturity finally forced me to change and seek help for the dysfunction I was raised in. What you write about here is REAL and happens more than one would suspect!

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Noni! How did I miss your comment?? 😦

          I really swore I had replied to it! Hmm.. Same thing happened w/GCG. Maybe some glitch?

          Well, thank you for sharing that w/me/us. I appreciate hearing from someone w/first hand knowledge on how that story can go. It’s good to hear that you managed to overcome! I’m sure you have a lot to contribute on the matter and I’d love to hear more of your thoughts any time. 🙂

      • sonja says:

        Excellent job defining the many motivations as to why someone would NOT tell the truth. I want to add one piece of evidence not used in the trial ( i think) to support your comment. Cat do you remember that note GA wrote to KC while she was in jail? It was after he had been called to a meeting with JB. He said something along the lines of, ” they asked me two questions and I said mum…”. Did you find that to be a very odd correspondence? We can only ponder what those two questions were and i took the note as an implied threat or a strong reminder telling KC to shut it. Why even write that to her if he was not involved somehow? It implies guilt. Your thoughts?

        • catoutloud says:

          Hey, Sonja! Good to see you :).

          That letter really does say a lot to me. The poetic format he uses is just one of them. I do have to say that when I read the hand written copy, you can see that where it said “mum”, he actually had said “and I am num”. There was a second line in question, “continued to ‘have’ you, my daughter” was actually, “continue to ‘love’ you…” But those things don’t change the meaning behind it, IMO. It is a guilt trip, it is an implied threat, IMO. The “why, why, why’s” were for dramatic affect. It was a performance. I’ve seen it before… In both his suicide note and this letter he is trying to be “deep and profound”. Performing.

          Why didn’t he just come more direct? Well, he didn’t want to put it on paper. He knew it would come out.

          I think once Casey was “safe” in jail and separated from the bubble she lived in w/her family, she finally had the time to reflect back on all of it and see the truth. She was talking to a counselor while she was there and they helped her get some things out and gave her a different perspective on it all. From the inside she had not been fully able to grasp the dysfunction.

          I have back and forth on each player in this case and I just can’t shake the feeling that there was something VERY wrong w/the whole family. George continues to stand out. Cindy continues to protect her family image by any means. That is all about HER though.

        • sonja says:

          The young adults i worked with lived away from the families while continuing their education. They would form their own identities once away from their families. Some didn’t even want to go home to visit. I knew of some horrible situations and the only difference was they didn’t come from a middle-class income. You know how everyone refers to KC as a sociopath? I see her as person with borderline features with the lying and emotional ups and downs. I don’t think i will ever forget the way she cried when GA denied the allegations in court. People say borderlines aren’t treatable or capable of remorse but that’s been proven to be false. I hope she is getting counseling and using this opportunity to heal and better herself. I hope she is NOT drinking all day and living the good life because all that is temporal and won’t bring her real peace of mind. Is there any real information as to how she is doing now? I can’t find anything other than the probation reports.

        • catoutloud says:

          So, in your work, you have the opp to experience what some of these kids are dealing with and where they are coming from. It gives you a different angle to view from. I don’t want to believe that Casey is anything “untreatable”.

          There is an NFL player who has come out as a spokesperson for people w/ BPD. He has been diagnosed and wants to help create awareness and treatments for this disorder. That might show that all BPD is not untreatable. For him to put himself out there as the face of it, knowing the stigmas against BPD, COULD show that there is some sign of compassion and emotion behind his intent. BPD is very often a trait of sociopaths, so I sure hope Casey does not have it… If she does I do pray it can be treated. Same for anyone else w/the disorder, the world would be a little safer if they can figure that one out.

          There is some research that has been done, that you may be aware of, where they have discovered that pathological liars have a certain percentage more of white matter vs gray matter in the brain. This was done in comparison to normal people and sociopaths. the pathological liar ranked higher than both. This would separate the liar from the sociopath, in some cases, although the lying is also a common sociopathic trait. But that does not always mean that the liar is a sociopath, from what I gathered. Interesting stuff. I have to figure out how to set up a section for links on my site. I’m still learning ;). In the meantime you can google the difference between pathological lying and sociopathy.

          I’m not sure if anyone really knows how Casey is doing right now. But I do know that she doesn’t plan to be talking for quite some time. Her “people” say she is not ready for all of that. I hope that implies that she is undergoing some serious treatment and recovery. I pray it is a success.

        • sonja says:

          I missed this one too. Yes i know all about the differences in brain matter in the cerebral cortex which is responsible for emotion. ( I hope I cited the correct part of the brain? There is much research the borderline personality disorder can be treated with both medication and cognitive behaviorial therapy. Path lying crosses into at least three or more disorders including mood disorders. She seems characteristic of that BPD more than psychopathy to me. She could be feigning emotion and really be a sociopath though. I think by all the reports concerning her showing little emotion is alluding to psychopathy imo. BPD stems from severe childhood trauma and can be associated with being raised by a narcissistic parent! I remember reading that if the person deals with initial trauma, then they will
          begin to heal with more therapy. I will look for the link that discussed
          these three disorders, their diffs and similarities.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Yes, from we have been able to see of her (not much, or in the best light), she could be a number of things. She we sociopathy/psychopathy is one that is mentioned often, narcissim is a trait of many sociopaths but a narcissist does not have to, also, be a sociopath. BPD, Pathological lying, cruelty to animals, and extreme love for animals can also be traits of a sociopath. BUT pathological lying is also a side effect of the abused child. It can be a learned behavior that takes a life of it’s own. No one has ever had anything bad to say about her as a child, and it is common to see signs of sociopathy at a very young age, though they can’t be diagnosed until they are 18 and up…

          I have checked into whether she fits the criteria of having some form of Bi-polar disorder, and there are matches there as well. To me, she seems to fit most w/a child abused starting at a young age. The seizures, the headaches, the unexplained soreness, the lying, the possible dissociation… These could also be signs of Complex PTSD. PTSD signs and symptoms can resemble those of sociopathy, as well. So it is def hard to tell while sitting in the “armchair” ;). The fact that her testing by multiple psychs showed her to be of normal mental health is what throws me off. I don’t think she could have duped 3 of them. In the first two (that are now being revealed in JA’s book), it would have been in the states favor to deem her as mentally competent, so that she would have to stand trial and be held fully accountable for the murder. For the defense it also works in their favor, because then, it couldn’t be claimed that she was a sociopath. Harry Kropp(?) deemed her to have no mental illness or personality disorders. So what gives? Is it possible that she was on medication at the time of the therapy sessions? That may have allowed her to test normally in the mental illness arena, but since meds don’t really do much for a sociopath, I would think it wouldn’t have had much affect on that part of the testing. What do you think Sonja?

      • Engel Kobres says:

        Yea, a lot of the witnesses who gave false testimony in the Troy Davis case did that partially because they suspected who the real murder was and were afraid that he would kill them. It’s easy for people to say that they would do otherwise, but I suspect that these people haven’t met murders! 🙂

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          You are so right, Engel! How can one say that they would have no problem facing down a cold-killer? Once you see someone is capable, it puts them into a whole new category, even for the “tough guys” ;). I am not familiar w/the Troy Davis case so I will go check into that.

        • sonja says:

          I think he was the man executed for a crime proven that he didn’t commit. People feel angry and that his case was ignored due to his race. It was a very sad story.

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Oh my! I may have some exposure to the case but don’t recall the name? Did they have a documentary on it?

  9. GasCanGeorge says:

    The one with the shady past is none other than George Anthony yet LE never took a closer look at him…..
    He admitted on Dr. Phil that Cindy enabled him, yet Dr. Phil never called him on that. It was just another finger pointing , yet Cindy never got it. George never takes responsibiiity for his actions, blames Cindy for enabling. Yet Cindy stays with this man. That should say something right there. Cindy staying out of fear he’ll talk? We all know why George stays $$$$$$$…….: )

    • catoutloud says:

      Hey GCG! So sorry, I thought I had replied already :(.

      So, yes, I do agree w/your thoughts on Cindy possibly being a key player in this. I will say that it’s hard to keep that going sometimes when you read her interviews and so forth. There are certain things that make her appear as if she was in the dark for some time. We know image and money and material things were on the top of the list for her.. Money was an issue, for sure… Why is it that we NEVER EVER hear anything about whether there were life insurance policies for Caylee? No mention of there NOT being any life insurance policies, even. What’s the deal w/that?

      • GasCanGeorge says:

        YEah, I wondered about the insurance policy also. But with LE overlooking the backyard makeover, how many other things did they
        obviously ignored?

        Also the mystery about biological father. Any good investigation would’ve found him, or atleast the other grandparents……After all, they’re still out there, who’s stopping a good journalist?

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Exactly! They were so lazy on that investigation. Don’t they know that you can’t do shot-cuts in crime solving?

          It doesn’t really matter who the father is since the DNA test has “eliminated” George and Lee. But I do find it odd that NO ONE has stepped up to the plate. NO ONE is out there trying to find the guy. Never really were. Why not?

        • GasCanGeorge says:

          I wonder if he was a married cop or somethin along those lines…

        • GasCanGeorge says:

          After all, something was scaring her to keep quiet. Did George instill such fear or someone else of authority? Aslo, is there any way one can screw up a DNA test if they had prior knowledge?? I was always curious about that

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I have continued to have questions about the DNA too…

        • sonja says:

          I looked up DNA testing. According to science daily, a person can bring in someone else’s saliva and screw with the test. Here is the link:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080410131603.htm It was also mentioned in another website that if someone can ind someone in the lab to do the dirty work then the test could be altered. I wonder how much $$ the Anthony’s were making off the non-profit around this time. Maybe follow the money is a good idea:)

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I have always hesitated to say it but, w/all the other fabs and manips that are evident in this case, it would not at all shock me that DNA was tampered w/as well. The State wanted a win and BAD. It looks like they did so much it was over-kill and actually worked against them as we see, and as it SHOULD! Thank God! Even is Casey turns out to be guilty, the Legal System should NEVER be allowed to get away w/so much corrupt activity! If a guilty woman went free, they have only THEMSELVES to blame. NOT the JURY, NOT the defense… I don’t think she’s guilty at this point, so I am GLAD it went the way it did.

          I’ll check that link too. Thanks 🙂

  10. cathyc1954 says:

    I believe Casey knows what happened. I believe she is ultimately responsible. How, I do not know. I think the possibilities are many; I can speculate all day, but I will never know. I do believe Caylee was murdered; whether intentionally or through negligent manslaughter, I don’t know.

    My point in saying that the baby may not have “drowned” or “been taken” on the 16th is this: the last confessed sightings of her are on the 16th 1) Casey left her at the nanny and 2) George was at home when Casey left the house with Caylee. Her story to the police is that she had not seen Caylee since the 16th. The attorney’s story to the jury is that she “drowned” on the 16th. Both of these stories have one thing in common: it is Casey’s story that what ever happened, happened on the 16th. This may not be true at all; probably isn’t given her propensity to confuse the facts during that time.

    People who think Casey is innocent continue to speculate about any possibility other than the fact that Casey did, in fact, know who disposed of her daughter and why.

    Think about it: a child ended up in a plastic bag the same brand as the bags used in the Anthony home; with a heart sticker similar to the stickers in Casey’s and Caylee’s room; with duct tape the same brand as at the Anthony home; in a cloth laundry bag the same as at the home. Someone had access to these things. Who? It’s almost like someone was sending a message to Casey by dumping Caylee in a ditch close to the home.

    If someone else actually murdered the baby, or the baby died while in their care, Casey knows who it is, and she is still covering it up.

    I think she is in hiding, not just from the public who hates her, but from someone who had something to do with the murder of this child. She knows the truth will come out eventually.

    • catoutloud says:

      Ahh, OK. Now we’re getting somewhere. Trust me, I could blog all day long on this subject, and this is just the 1st, so, there’ll be more from me on this subject :).

      I do believe Casey must have some knowledge, if not involvement, in whatever happened. And I agree with your thoughts on her fear of this other person/s. What we need to figure out is if there was someone else at fault, who is it and how did they put such fear in her that would keep her quiet all this time? Is it someone she has extreme loyalty to, someone she loves more than her own life, or someone she knows or has been convinced is extremely dangerous? Someone in the last category would be the most likely reason she has done this to herself. Maybe the fear was manifested when they killed her baby girl.

      Oh wouldn’t it be lovely for the truth to finally come out? I can’t stand an unsolved mystery!

      • GasCanGeorge says:

        June 9th CAylee disappeared from Ricardo’s. He stated that Caylee was taken home by Casey as C indy demanded that Caylee be brought home. Now, either George notified Cindy at her mother’s home that Caylee and Casey wasnt home then Cindy called Casey or George might have demanded she come home. I reckon Cindy was staying with her mother due to h er father’s stroke?? So, there is a mystery about that evening as well, where did Caylee go because June 9th was the original date that the A’s reported, then changed it to June 16th. My thoughts are this:

        Caylee died under her own roof, IMOO, under the care of one of the grandparents. The coverup was actually for the grandparent. I dont believe Casey knew about it until she arrived home and tried to retrieve her daughter…..Even Shirely P said June 9th at first so that tells me Cindy Anthony was and always has been the instigator and story teller….I think Casey took the fall for her own mother or evn father due to her own guilt, she knew she was putting her mother through hell by stealing etc, so i’m sure Cindy used that to her advantage. George plays a major roll as we all know . LE overlooked George due to the fact he was an ex cop, that is clear because even George admitted taking the gascans on June 24th which would leave his own fingerprints on those cans. The cans were wiped clean and he admitted not seeing Casey after that event. Well, atleast he said that to LE one time but on the stand he said he didnt see CAsey at all after June 16th when she left with Caylee. So , there was another lie that LE ignored. I can go on and on. So, yes. Caylee I think died at her home and Casey found out afterthefact. The coverup began long before she found out IMO. Just look back at Cindy Anthony’s videos, she can tell a story and make up things like it’s just another day. She is IMO GUILTY AS SIN,,,,,,

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          You have some good theories. I have many as most of us, probably do, but it always helps to put the minds together. There’s always some new perspective dropped on the table, some small pieces that were overlooked that make a big difference. There is something about Cindy, I agree… Hmm..Could SHE be the real mastermind behind it all? Wouldn’t that be something?

      • sonja says:

        What do you think of her involvement with LE prior to Caylee going missing. Some speculate KC was involved in child pornography. I’d like to put those speculations to rest if possible. The ideas that she got involved with something bigger than she and made important people mad which initiated a huge cover-up? Or the one that implies that the FBI has evidence placed under seal because it is part of an ongoing investigation to nab sexual predators. I’ll find the links if you would like but i suspect you are already familiar with this topic.

        • catoutloud says:

          I haven’t delved super deep as far as research on the whole sex-ring theory. I have come across many threads and articles on the topic though. One can never have TMI on this case, so, please, feel free to share whatever links you would like me to see. Others who view my blogs and comments may not have seen some of this stuff yet, so it would be helpful to them as well :).

          I am pretty sure that, at least, some of those sealed photos are of Casey. In one of George’s interviews, he talks about how he understood that LE had found somewhere around 1200 photos of Casey “in compromising positions”. He claimed he got sick over that because that’s not the Casey he knew and she “was doing some ‘bad’ things”. He was worried about those coming out. I think they did not come out because they had nothing to do w/the case. But there could def be more to that which the public is not privy to.

          There were some people saying that Lee had an escort business for sporting events. I came in too late to check into that rumor though. Whatever evidence there was of that had been removed. Could George and Lee have been exploiting their own daughter and sister by allowing her to be involved in these types of activities of which they were both involved? Is this how creepy Kronk ties in to the scene? Hmm.. Def some stuff to think about!

        • GasCanGeorge says:

          With that crew over at the OCSD and, the diligent COUGH investigation that insued I stopped counting to be honest all the f ups pertaining to George and Cindy and also Ricardo, JP Chatt and crew but I never thought once about child porn as the actions of Cindy and George reeked guilt and Cindy’s obvious worry about Casey saying something to the Dr in Jail. Casey did say to her mother that she needed to not worry as she DIDNT SAY ANYTHING so that leads me to believe CA is and always has been the mastermind. AGain, look over her videos, she has an answer for EVERYTHING . So, if she knew nothing how can she have those answers? It is obvious, well, to me since DAY 2 that Caylee died under the care of one of the grandparents,,,,,Now, either Cindy was so doped up on RX drugs and caylee died under her care or visa vera. I wonder if CA was using her RX drugs to put Caylee out before she left for work if George wasnt around and CAsey wasnt home intime……

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I have always wondered if CAs prescriptions had anything to do w/any accident that might have occurred. Could Caylee simply have gotten into some meds left around? You know Cindy could not let anyone think that such a thing could happen under her watch. IDK though. If that were the case, and it was a one time thing, then would it be less likely to show up in the hair and bone-marrow drug-tests? If she had died so soon after over-dosing, maybe it didn’t have a chance to make it that far? But that same thing could be applied if Casey had drugged her that one time, causing her death… So IDK. Hmmm

          I do think Cindy would do anything to not let it be known that her “perfect” family had anything to do w/the demise of her granddaughter, even if it was an innocent accident. Her obsession w/”perfect” was OCD like, JIMHO.

        • GasCanGeorge says:

          There were several pictures of CAylee what looked ike she was coming out of a drugged induced sleep. With lopsided smiles etc.

          One such photo where here mouth was distorted is the one where she was being held by Casey looking into a mirror with bunny ears. Another one where she’s standing in the kitchen with whiskers, her face is lopsided The one that stuck out the most with me is the one with the pink angel costume, her face is extremely distorted. That child was either being drugged or abused, it’s evident in the photos howevr it’s not proof. . I ‘ve seen many photos like that, so RX drugs could’ve played a major roll. Again, speculating as usual

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I’ll have to take a better look at some of those photos GCG. But I do have to say I have seen some of them and I can’t really see that she looked drugged the way some others have. I am a mom and have taken care of many other babies and children in my lifetime. To me she just looks sleepy, like she woke up from sleep or a nap soon before some of those photos were taken. It looked like when Caylee tried to pose w/a smile, it would be lopsided as she was just learning to smile for the camera :). A lot of people have asymmetrical smiles. Part of the reason I do have a hard time believing she was drugged, on a regular basis, if at all, is due to the fact that there were no traces of any type of drugs in her hair or bone-marrow. They checked for OTC’s narcotics and so forth. They tried to say all of a sudden that testing of the hair and bone might not produce accurate results, but I don’t buy that. If Caylee had been drugged regularly in her short life, it would have definitely shown in her hair. I’m not as familiar w/the bone-marrow and how long it holds stuff like that, but the hair would have shown SOMETHING. The only other poss. is that the tests were not done on Caylee’s remains… That’s a whole other ball park right there 😀

    • catoutloud says:

      Hey CathyC, I forgot to mention in my last reply that the heart shape sticker that you mentioned, turned out not to have existed. If you were talking about the one they supposedly found the residue of on the duct tape, that claim was bogus. The only heart shaped sticker they found was near the scene and on a piece of common cardboard. The sticker was of the raised variety and rainbow colored. The stickers found in the Anthony home were not at all like this one. We have to keep in mind that this was an area often used for dumping trash and it was also right by a school. I think the sticker had nothing to do with it. Just wanted to throw that info out there. The heart sticker connection was just a myth. Isn’t it crazy how they tried to use a MYTH as “evidence” in a COURT OF LAW? I guess anything goes, huh? But it shows how desperate the State was, doesn’t it?

    • Noni says:

      “the last confessed sightings of her are on the 16th 1) Casey left her at the nanny and 2) George was at home when Casey left the house with Caylee.”….Yep, good ‘ol George! The same George that went to the police (behind Cindy’s back)and buddy to buddy told them he thought his daughter killed his grandaughter. The same George that went before the grand jury and said enough that an indictment was handed down for first degree murder. This George who created the Gas can fiasco and obviously lied about the tape and reported the “theft” of the gas cans to the police when he knew his daughter had them.

      This George who was a cop, this George who “gambled” away CINDY’S money causing her to cash in her retirement money to bail them out (I use quotes because I believe there were other not so nice expenditures thru the computer and gambling was the cleaned up version – i.e. pictures that were sealed, porno?). This George who’s actions caused his daughter to beg her mother not to take him back after she had kicked him out. This George who couldn’t keep a job. This George who supposedly had an affair(s). This George who is a proven liar. This George who is involved in the questionable kid finder org. that brings him in money so he doesn’t HAVE to pretend to be looking for a job.

      This is who should have been looked at by the police and his actions/activites/motives laid bare for all to see. Too bad it suited the police to use this “buddy” of theirs to pin this first degree charge on Casey. No, we will never know the truth now because there is no way LE will ever admit they were wrong (they never do!).

      I believe we will hear more about this George in the future (not connected with the death of Caylee) but this man is IMHO is as crooked as they come and is A LIAR. Gee-wonder where Casey got her values from? George stole Cindy’s money and used it for himself and is a liar.

      • catoutloud says:

        Yup to all of the above!

        I think that the 16th was just the date of choice they had to settle on once the video proved Caylee was still alive on the 15th. Cindy had said the 7th, 8th, 9th. “Ok so the 9th is when she was last seen alive, yeah.” No way was Cindy going to let herself be named as the last one seen w/her. They had a family meeting of some sort before LE arrived that night IMO. They used Casey’s “Nanny” lie as the foundation, since it had already been built. I’m not sure when Cindy knew what really went down, if she knows at all… She is the only one who “appeared” to be on Casey’s side and did a good job of playing the role, if she wasn’t sincere. She could turn out to be the best actor of them all. Who knows?

        George reminds me, in more ways than one, of a sociopath I knew, personally. He can seem so innocent and emotional, so sincere and honest. But when he is challenged, that ego comes bubbling to the surface. “How DARE you challenge, ME!” Did you notice in one of the interviews with him, as he rambled on and on and on, one of the LE made a little remark, that said a lot, “You seem like a guy who knows a lot about a lot of things, George”… The other officer kind of walked over that one. He didn’t want to George to put his guard up and stop talking. That’s IMO. Have you seen that one?

        That also reminds me of the interview w/JJ (Joe Jordan). It was Oct 2008, and he mentions a convo he had w/George where he asked him about the “INCEST” allegations that were going around. This helps prove to those who think Casey waited 3 years to “come up w/THAT story” that they are wrong. That was being talked about all the way back in Oct 2008. The interview was done in 2009 but it was based on the searches that occurred back in the beginning of it all.

        And, yes, if there is something mentally wrong w/Casey, it’s clear where it came from. Whether it’s genetic or a product of her upbringing.

      • GasCanGeorge says:

        My thoughts about that last video of Caylee is that it was downloaded on purpose to start Cindy’s Anthony’s alibi along with the My Caylee is Missing BS….

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I hate to say this out loud, but the whole question of who or why anyone was online looking into missing childrens’ cases, has always made me wonder, if this wasn’t some type of family affair. Like some sick money making scheme. The only person I can see coming up w/such an idea, would be George, the gambler. Easy money was his thing… He was a major part of the family debt problem, so he may have been plotting on how to rake it in. Maybe Caylee was the key… The question would then be, who knew about it and went along w/it? Is it possible that is why Cindy refused to let Casey give her up for adoption, because they had plans for her? Far-retched but not impossible.

        • Juror 2310 says:

          Especially if he owed money for gsmbling debts and or about to be Kicked out by Cindy. How convenient huh

      • Juror 2310 says:

        Often wondered how the man wad hired in security. Whatever he did in the past was swept under the rug and not put on his record. Gee, pays to be a cop huh?

    • GasCanGeorge says:

      I think she was manipulated into thinking it was an accident by her parent or parents, and went along with it as the cover up already began before she realized, so really how could she have called police if one of her parents already planted evidence in her car and set her up,,,The doll is one example. Also Cindy’s alibi with the video tape etc, and myspace posts. Cindy already planted the seed that she did something by posting that for all to see. Caylee was at the home while KC was spreading her wings and I believe she returned to find her daughter missing from her OWN HOME..In comes story teller Cindy her normal covering up which shes done for years pertaining to George etc…George and Cindy know and they cannot deny it anymore….Shame LE is too embarrassed to do something as George made them ALL LOOK LIKE CHUMPS IMOO

      • CatOutLoud® says:

        Hey GCG,

        Very interesting. It is possible something like this did happen. I do wonder when, if so. Do you have any ideas? And do you think it happened on the 16th or after the fact?

        • Juror 2310 says:

          Something happened the week of Cindy’s birthday. I think that is the week the chit hit the fan in that house between George and Cindy. Possibly George used Caylee as leverage to not get kicked out as I do believe Cindy may have wanted to put the house in Caseys name to escape paying George hence Casey’s statements during that time frame. I do feel Cindy is lying about everything that built up to Caylee’s demise as I feel their dysfunctional relationship helped kill that child. George is on the top of my list then Cindy as the ones responsible. Imoo

        • Juror 2310 says:

          My opinion is George saw Casey and Caylee as threats like a child as Cindy his wife was more like a mother to him not a wife. Seemed to be power struggles between Casey And George. Like two children. George however made sure law enforcement knew about some incident in the hospital between Cindy and Casey however. Why even say that when your granddaughter is missing? Once again trying to take off any kind of problem between George and Casey. He continued that throughout the investigation. Cindy Antony is by far a very messed up individual to choose a pedophile to stay in her home with Caylee. Think about it

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          I seem to be missing comments, again! 😦 So sorry, Juror2310!

          I agree that “reserved and quiet George”, seemed to have way too much to say to LE… Unless the poor guy was the only one who saw his daughter for “what she was”, he seemed way too invested in “inadvertently”, casting all types of doubt and suspicion onto Casey.

          Cindy seemed to be most concerned w/protecting her family image. That meant defending ALL of her family members while, simultaneously setting up the “weakest link” to take the fall when it came down to it— w/out ever having to say a word… SHE sure as hell wasn’t going to take the fall and neither was her hubby George. They both made sure of that. IMO 😉

        • CatOutLoud® says:

          Good insight. Especially about the house. Cindy even said she’d talked to Casey about selling her the house but that Casey wouldn’t be able to afford the mortgage. Or was it that she had talked about selling the house because she, herself couldn’t afford the mortgage. Whether or not it was just talk or something that was being considered I do think Casey was telling at least half the truth on that one. I have never once bought the idea that Casey was planning to kill her whole family LOL 😉 And if Casey actually was looking up household weapons and self-defense for women, what that tells me is that she was looking for a way to PROTECT HERSELF, DUH! LOL Who did she need to protect herself from? Well what about her father who was likely molesting her and may have even been physically abusive. Both Cindy and George seemed a little too comfortable w/strangling/choking their daughter. Remember the time that Casey was either IM’ing or Texting w/a friend, saying she was sick and going to stay home, rather than go out with friends? She mentioned the doc had told her she had a bruised rib.. I don’t think she went to the doc, but where do we think the bruised ribs came from? Hmmmm.. I’m taking a wild guess that injury happened in the home…

  11. cathyc1954 says:

    Well, think about this.

    Before, during, and after the trial, it was declared that the baby either died (drowned) or was missing on June 16th. Prior to the trial, and up to the opening of the trial, Casey said that the baby was taken on the 16th, and that she had been “missing” for 31 days, prior to the 911 call. Then, at the opening of the trial, Casey Anthony’s attorney said the baby “drowned” on the 16th. (no mention of a drowning since, btw) So, we have two different versions from Casey Anthony about what happened to her child. Has anyone considered that the baby may actually have been murdered by someone else AFTER the 16th?

    Remember, the baby ended up in a plastic bag, with duct tape on or around her mouth and hair, in a ditch. That’s the bottom line. We forget about that. Who put her there? Think about that. If the baby drowned, who put her in a plastic bag and put her in the swamp? Who in their right mind would do that?

    What is interesting is that NONE of the Anthony family members are trying to find the murderer. Not George, who insists that he had nothing to do with any cover up of a drowning. Not Cindy, who says that the jury made the right decision. Not the brother (btw, where is he? not one word out of him since testimony). And certainly not Casey. She is biding time until she can sell some sort of story. If I were a family member, and knew that I had nothing to do with a drowning, and believed that Casey was innocent, I would be looking for who murdered the baby. No one is even looking.

    Whoever thinks Casey is innocent of anything to do with her child’s death needs to remember and think about that child ending up in a plastic bag in a ditch. If her Dad found that baby drowned, and then handled “disposing” of the body, what mother IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would not say anything about that for three years?

    And here is one final thought. If nobody in that baby’s family cares about what actually happened, and it appears that they don’t, then why should we?

    • catoutloud says:

      Cathyc1954- Welcome 🙂

      I too, have thought about the 16th not being the true day of disappearance or death. I have definitely considered the possibility of someone other than Casey being the murderer and I still, very much, do.

      You don’t make very clear in your reply what it is you believe. Guilty? Not-guilty or somewhere in the middle?

      I do have to say that we can’t know if anyone in the family is looking for the murderer or not at this point. I don’t think that would be the type of info you’d want made known to the public. It wouldn’t be wise to alert the killer that you are trying to track them down, right? But, with that being said, I absolutely get your point. If they don’t already know who took Caylee’s life, you would sure hope they are pushing for the case to remain open and investigation under way. If the family is not working on it, I sure hope SOMEONE is.

      To your question about why we should care about what happened to Caylee if her own family does not seem to? I believe we should care. If we don’t care about what happens to other peoples’ children, who will? We have to consider the possibility that whoever killed Caylee (not including Casey) might still be out there, unknown. The evidence clearly did not prove Casey did it and our minds need to remain open to other scenarios.

      I feel it would be huge mistake for this case to fall by the wayside simply because the trial is over and people are so dead-set that Casey got away w/murder. If nothing more, we have to, at least, shed light on the mishandling of this case from day 1. Casey is not the only one who lied and obstructed justice, by ANY means…

  12. aw says:

    Interesting

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